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Vase game to be Played at Wincham Park

Ben said:
Paul seems like a decent chap to me who knows his local football. Always fair minded and reasoned in his posts in comparison to one or two other Wittoners who've posted on here in the past.

As for attendances, yes Pete is right, there has been a decline in crowds across the board not only in Mid Cheshire but in local football in general. That said, I agree with Kit that there is support out there and we need to do more to build our fan base and get our message out there in a positive and pro-active manner, which in my view would be easier from Witton. Look at what crowds we attracted when we first formed 1874.

I don't expect us to get crowds in the high hundreds or even thousand plus as Vics managed in the not too distant past, but there's no reason why we can't average 300-400 which would be very good for the level we play at and even in higher leagues.
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Thanks Ben, likewise. I do occasionally bite but sometimes its hard not to! I have a genuine passion for local, non-league football as I grew up with it, give me it any day of the week over paying £50 plus to go and watch a Premier League club. The way things are going I have genuine concerns that I am not going to have such an option in 5/10 years time. Hence why this arrangement (however it will pan out) makes complete sense to me for both clubs.
 
paul said:
Thanks Ben, likewise. I do occasionally bite but sometimes its hard not to! I have a genuine passion for local, non-league football as I grew up with it, give me it any day of the week over paying £50 plus to go and watch a Premier League club. The way things are going I have genuine concerns that I am not going to have such an option in 5/10 years time. Hence why this arrangement (however it will pan out) makes complete sense to me for both clubs.
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Absolutely Paul, same here. I would rather watch local football any day over the Premier League and I love non-league football.

Nothing wrong with a bit of passion and friendly rivalry and banter but we've got to think about the bigger picture here and put silly squabbling to one side. That for me involves Witton and 74 working together and other local clubs for that matter, or like you say, football in the town may not have a long term future.
 
Ben said:
Absolutely Paul, same here. I would rather watch local football any day over the Premier League and I love non-league football.

Nothing wrong with a bit of passion and friendly rivalry and banter but we've got to think about the bigger picture here and put silly squabbling to one side. That for me involves Witton and 74 working together and other local clubs for that matter, or like you say, football in the town may not have a long term future.
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.....which would be incredibly sad given the pleasure (and often pain!) it has given to many thousands of Northwich folk since the 19th century. It must be preserved for future generations imo.
 
paul said:
.....which would be incredibly sad given the pleasure (and often pain!) it has given to many thousands of Northwich folk since the 19th century. It must be preserved for future generations imo.
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And to do so requires some adult choices. To some extent both clubs are at a crossroads now, I don’t think this situation and indeed this opportunity will necessarily present itself again.

Finally can I just add, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I respect Blackie’s point of view here; one which i’m sure is shared by others who aren’t necessarily active on the forum or social media, both here and on the “Centralgrounder” . Hopefully at some point, when more details are made public, those who have misgivings can be won round. Personally I don’t see either club as being in the driving seat, more that they are both front seat passengers.;):D
 
I think that there is quite a decent amount of people out there in the Northwich area that have never or aren't currently following a local team for a variety of reasons, I believe that w*tton have lost the most due to them having had vics as tennents which a lot of their fans just couldn't accept, vics have lost fans for obvious reasons and we are/will lose fans by playing at Winsford long term, there are fans in the middle who maybe used to follow vics but don't anymore but don't also want to give us a chance until vics no longer exist, there are people who may be newer to the area and just haven't thought about following a local non league team yet and these are the types of people that we should be looking at attracting, if we were back playing in the Northwich area it wouldn't guarantee us anything and gates wouldn't just suddenly shoot up but it would surely give us a better chance of trying to achieve that than by being based in Winsford?
 
My personal opinion regarding a future ground share with Witton Albion is a positive one and a option which I think our board committe should really consider.
However if we do one day enter negotiations regarding a ground share with Witton Albion i don't want Winsford United to be left out of pocket from the result of it.
I'm sure the board knows this but Winsford have been kind enough to lend us their ground since we started and I for one is appreciative for their help and I will be forever greatful to them.

I just think if the opportunity comes about to ground share with Witton Albion it would be beneficial in the long term for 1874 to play there.

I know some of us wouldn't like 74 to ground share at Witton but sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture and see the benefits and possibilities which comes with playing in Northwich.

The big IF now is will it be a reasonable deal for us?
 
I did have no intention of posting on here about the switch to Wincham Park this Sunday (which I believe is fantastic for us by the way) however I have just read something that has been sent to me and has moved me to tears (again) I now feel compelled to say something.

I am not going to tell anyone what they should do. If they feel strongly about not attending, then I respect their right to vote with their feet. However I would absolutely urge you to read the words that Goodie has written for this week's Newsletter. If you don't have it sent to you, then sign up for it. Or, you can view it via the Club website.

His words, on behalf of him and Bow, are from the heart and one of the best set of notes I have ever read. He talks about our beloved Chairman and the move to WP this weekend. I have no doubt, that it will tug at the heart strings and perhaps make the most 'hardened' of people, at least reassess the situation.

I was so very pleased to see Paul's sons Chris & Rich at yesterday's friendly. Many people have obviously said to them that if they can do anything to help the family, they will do.

Their reply? Be there for Dad on Sunday. Because he wanted to be there to support the lads so very much.....
 
It is now time to look forwards and not backwards. I would urge Blackie and all like minded people to think again about attending Wincham Park to watch an 1874 game. What are the benefits? A chance to watch 1874 playing their football in Northwich (or near enough) again. To watch a home match again in a proper football stadium with excellent facilities. To play on a much better pitch. I do not quite understand why some people are so against us fostering a closer relationship with Witton. We are still relatively a new club and we need to build on all the hard work that went into getting the club up and running. Winsford have been fantastic landlords, but perhaps it is time for the club to move on if there is an opportunity for us to now do so. I have the utmost confidence in the Board in conducting negotiations with Witton. I am sure that they would not sign up to any long term agreement (with security of tenure) for us to play football at Wincham Park that would put our club financially at risk. The bottom line is where do we all realistically see our club's development in 5 and 10 years time and how do we realistically go about achieving that?
 
Of course I will be there on Sunday as I will be for the future games that have already been negotiated, and as I have already stated the results of the future talks are important to all of us. I am sure that soonest those discussions will be discussed with the owners of 74 and I am also sure that same will be advantageous to both clubs for the future, and I am also sure that WA have learned from their previous attempt to take us for a ride, I truly hope so as this is to the fore in my mind, so as said previously we need to "wait out" and trust that a reasonable deal for both clubs are on the table.
 
Halvo1874 said:
The bottom line is where do we all realistically see our club's development in 5 and 10 years time and how do we realistically go about achieving that?
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5 years in we’ve done an excellent job. Now probably is the time to use the fantastic base we have and move on to the next level, and if that means a move I fully support it.
 
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Vicki England said:
I would absolutely urge you to read the words that Goodie has written for this week's Newsletter. If you don't have it sent to you, then sign up for it. Or, you can view it via the Club website.

His words, on behalf of him and Bow, are from the heart and one of the best set of notes I have ever read. He talks about our beloved Chairman and the move to WP this weekend. I have no doubt, that it will tug at the heart strings and perhaps make the most 'hardened' of people, at least reassess the situation.
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Vicki, has this been published yet? I have been through the last 3 I have received and do not recognise them?
 
I have resisted temptation to post so far this season, but thought this might be an opportune time to break my duck.

Firstly - in speaking with Mark Harris at our game yesterday, I get the impression that there was tremendous goodwill and respect on both sides of the table in the work that was done to bring this game to Wincham Park. I did not know Paul Stockton personally, but its a measure of the man that he was able to bring the discussions to a successful conclusion (despite his severe illness) where both parties are keen to see a continued dialogue, undertaken in a profession spirit and where positive outcomes for both clubs are one of the criteria by which any deal is measured.

There have been a few posts that have raised the spectre of any deal being done between the 2 clubs as being good for one or bad for the other. As this initial game shows that isn't necessarily the case. I admit its difficult for supporters who are not hearing all sides of the discussions to throw off years of rivalry and distrust, but there are compelling reasons why we need, at least, to consider all the options available to both clubs.

As any club progresses through the leagues, costs increase. Gate receipts alone will not cover the wages in higher leagues (for either club), so the risk of success bringing debt is always a possibility. The costs of managing, maintaining and improving facilities is a huge burden for any club and will eat up a large proportion of any revenues and where gate receipts are already not covering wage costs, we may have the making of a perfect debt storm. Ground sharing may also unlock further revenues to benefit both clubs. This may be via grants, sponsorship, shared commercial ventures etc.

There are supporters in both camps who will not be happy about the prospect of shared facilities and working together. The reality is that neither club currently has either the individual financial clout or facilities to make a real impact in the non league elite leagues. Realities are harsh and require some new thinking. Some on the red side of town may criticise Mark Harris for his stewardship of WAFC, but I think he has managed admirably during some very difficult years and if he manages to broker an agreement that is beneficial to both clubs, his greatest achievement may be yet to come.

Happy new year to all football fans, be ye red or green !!
 
Knutsfordian said:
I have resisted temptation to post so far this season, but thought this might be an opportune time to break my duck.

Firstly - in speaking with Mark Harris at our game yesterday, I get the impression that there was tremendous goodwill and respect on both sides of the table in the work that was done to bring this game to Wincham Park. I did not know Paul Stockton personally, but its a measure of the man that he was able to bring the discussions to a successful conclusion (despite his severe illness) where both parties are keen to see a continued dialogue, undertaken in a profession spirit and where positive outcomes for both clubs are one of the criteria by which any deal is measured.

There have been a few posts that have raised the spectre of any deal being done between the 2 clubs as being good for one or bad for the other. As this initial game shows that isn't necessarily the case. I admit its difficult for supporters who are not hearing all sides of the discussions to throw off years of rivalry and distrust, but there are compelling reasons why we need, at least, to consider all the options available to both clubs.

As any club progresses through the leagues, costs increase. Gate receipts alone will not cover the wages in higher leagues (for either club), so the risk of success bringing debt is always a possibility. The costs of managing, maintaining and improving facilities is a huge burden for any club and will eat up a large proportion of any revenues and where gate receipts are already not covering wage costs, we may have the making of a perfect debt storm. Ground sharing may also unlock further revenues to benefit both clubs. This may be via grants, sponsorship, shared commercial ventures etc.

There are supporters in both camps who will not be happy about the prospect of shared facilities and working together. The reality is that neither club currently has either the individual financial clout or facilities to make a real impact in the non league elite leagues. Realities are harsh and require some new thinking. Some on the red side of town may criticise Mark Harris for his stewardship of WAFC, but I think he has managed admirably during some very difficult years and if he manages to broker an agreement that is beneficial to both clubs, his greatest achievement may be yet to come.

Happy new year to all football fans, be ye red or green !!
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Great post,
 
Well said, Knutsfordian. I am all for closer cooperation between our 2 clubs as long as it is mutually beneficial. If financially the terms are acceptable, then why not ground share. Both 1874 and WAFC should work together to become stronger together both on and off the pitch. It is in the mutual interests of both clubs to ensure the survival of non league football in the town and to maintain a healthy but friendly rivalry between our two clubs.
 
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