New ground

[Mark Riding]

Although not by a current board member, today is a perfect example of where people have been ‘talked down to’ for making valid suggestions and it has put me off bothering for one.

If that's a dig at me then tell me how accusations of fiddling gate numbers is a 'valid suggestion'. If it's not then I apologise for misreading.

 

[James Wood]

In a word James, no. Don’t be quoting someone else’s posting and saying it’s mine.

We all know the requirements they’re easily found online. Barnton has a ground rating more than adequate for us, higher standard than winsford. Barntons set up shows what a fantastic set up you can get with a limited space.

What I did say is I hope the club keep their options open, and .

Apologies Andy - a 'senior moment' there.

Agree with you 100% re don’t dismiss anything too soon. And that is what we've done since embarking on our hunt for a ground. Indeed, when we first started we had 11 possible venues.

But what you and other must understand is the likes of me, and now Alex, have demanding jobs, a life outside of '74 and therefore only so much time we can devote to this matter. This is why we have had to prioritise our time and concentrate on those options that we think are realistic and deliverable.

Hence why the Board followed my recommendation that of all the possibilities, MF was the best option to pursue. Ok, it didn't pan out as I had hoped, but I believe 100% that the discussions we had with the likes of CWaC and CFA when we were proposing to base ourselves there have played a huge part in getting us to be a main player in the CFA 20/20 Vision project.

And as for Barnton's ground - yes, it is an example of what can be achieved in a small space. But by all accounts it was bursting to the seams last night and fro a practical point of view would struggle to cope with staging Step 3 football on a regular basis.

Cheers

James

 

[James Wood]

Attendances do seem to be reducing, probably due to early eliminations from the cup competitions and basically nothing to play for in the league, as has been eluded to elsewhere.
I’ve decided not to attend recently for different reasons though.
Being relatively new to the area, but an avid follower of non league football, I wanted to sample what Cheshire had to offer, and I’ve discovered there’s a lot to choose from! I grew to like 1874. I started to bring friends and visiting relatives along with me, I think we numbered 15 for the visit of Congleton last year!
Sadly though, there have been too many unsavoury incidents, Northwich Vics and Winsford stand out, but there were others too. Now I understand passions run high and, as I was not living in the area when 1874 was formed, maybe I just don’t get it, but too many times, the line has been crossed, and I, and others who have accompanied me, have felt uncomfortable.
Recently, I’ve paid visits to Leek and Congleton. I also watched Northwich Vics in the Vase and plan to watch their upcoming semi final too. The atmosphere at these games just seems a little more relaxed, making it a more enjoyable afternoon, so my time following ‘74 has probably drawn to a close.

Maybe it’s just me though!

Good luck for the future ????????

Andy - I think you will find that the 'incident' vVics at home was caused by non-74 fans who goaded the Vics fans and they re-acted to this. As I pointed out to those to (understandably) took offence, none of those who goaded them were 74 fans or wore any 74 colours.

I was not aware of any issues v Winsford, but I might just have missed these.

I'm sorry that you no longer feel that you can watch '74 and I expect that you will particularly enjoy yourself at Congleton - great club run by great people with the right ethos.

Goes without saying that you will be welcome at '74 if your views change.

 

[James Wood]

James no ladies toilets at abbey only in club but stairs to clime so pam cannot use them

Kev - you are right. And this should be picked up by the Ground Grading Committee when they do their annual inspection. Problem is - and I don't agree withn it - but the current wording re the provision of facilities for those with mobility and similar issues is a bit woolley.

It would be a hugely expensive job for great clubs like Abbey to provide facilities that the likes of Pam needs, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taking steps to try to provide them.

I fully expect that trying to do so, but they will no doubt be hugely reliant on getting grant funding from third parties to help them afford to build such facilities and this can take a great deal of time.

The point I was trying to make was that in any 'new-build' stadium, we would be expected to provide such facilities as a matter of course (which we'd want to do anyhow) and include these in the plans for the new stadium. Again, the Generic Stadium plan we produced had such facilities and included a lift to take those in wheelchairs / with limited mobility from the ground floor to the First Floor.

But such items do come at a cost....

 

[Jack Owen]

Andy - I think you will find that the 'incident' vVics at home was caused by non-74 fans who goaded the Vics fans and they re-acted to this. As I pointed out to those to (understandably) took offence, none of those who goaded them were 74 fans or wore any 74 colours.

I was not aware of any issues v Winsford, but I might just have missed these.

I'm sorry that you no longer feel that you can watch '74 and I expect that you will particularly enjoy yourself at Congleton - great club run by great people with the right ethos.

Goes without saying that you will be welcome at '74 if your views change.

The ‘incident’ against Winsford was when a Winsford fan, pushed an 74 fan in the back as he walked past, no need for it at all.

Last season, we were attacked by a lad high on some form of drug.

Like James said, always welcome at 74 mate.

 

[James Wood]

I’ve not been this season, which is more to do with having a young family and busy job but I still follow what’s going on closely.
I personally was disappointed we didn’t do more to ground share Wincham Park. We were riding high, attracting big crowds in the Vase and could’ve kicked on from there. We dithered and let Vics in, which is what I predicted would happen when I spoke to the board. They now have the momentum and we clearly struggled to sign anyone over the summer and have had a pretty disasterous season. People just won’t travel to Winsford to see an average team. I felt at the time there was a lack of ambition.
However, I do genuinely think the people running the club are fantastic and I was delighted with the Barnton ground share - it’s a great decision. Also think it says a lot that we were the first considered for the new football complex which, when initial location disappointment dies down, has the potential to be very exciting.
The board do need to be open to listening to fans, and make sure they get back to them when they make contact. Although not by a current board member, today is a perfect example of where people have been ‘talked down to’ for making valid suggestions and it has put me off bothering for one. What a star Vicki is though; approachable, down to earth and friendly. A real asset to the club.
Hopefully I’ll return next season;what I could never do is go back to Vics. They are in another predictable cycle of unsustainable spending before going bust. It will happen again.

Kit - thanks for your supportive post. Glad to see that you are still a true '74 fan!

I'm not a Board member now, so it does allow me to be more open with my views - although I do try to make comments in such a way that I don't compromise the best interests of the club (as far as I see it anyhow).

Re Witton, we were really grateful to them for them allowing us to play 3 of our Vase games their last season. We developed a good professional relationship that benefited both clubs.

We also started to discuss a potential longer-term relationship, but due to a combination of the timescales involved in advising the FA / NWCFL where we would be playing this season (31 March), allied the intense pressures placed on all of us due to our fixture pile-up in March / April, we simply didn't have the time to progress any further discussions with Witton.

However, from the discussions we did have, it was clear that WAFC would expect a rental significantly greater than that which we are currently paying at Winsford. Indeed, it was similar to the value that they originally asked for back in 2013 when we first had negotiations with them re a possible ground share.

Clearly, there might have been some real benefits in us agreeing a ground share arrangement with WAFC in terms of increased gate reciepts / attendances. But these could not be guarenteed and without getting extra income from elsewhere, the significantly increased rental would have made our aim of setting a net-nil budget very challenging. Hence, on balance, the Board elected not to pursue this option.

Some might call this lack of ambition. To me, it is responsible stewardship of our club.

We've all seen what irresponsible management of football clubs can lead to Our ethos is not to fall into the trap that dozens of other clubs have fallen

 

[Blackie]

You're suggesting a club, who are the only one in the area not to count non-attending season tickets, who voted down a members motion to increase the gate figures at the last agm by including these paying customers, wants to inflate the gates by lying about how many attend. It's beyond ridiculous.

Actually the post you quoted was asking how could the figure be adjusted to prove me wrong when i made the point post match after the figure had been announced....you haven't answered that particular question yet!?

 

[James Wood]

I think you may find Andy/James that although these ground grading reg's are indeed easily found online, few will have read them thoroughly (even amongst our committed and heavily engaged band of folk on this forum, let alone amongst the wider club membership or the even wider fan base). So it is worthwhile posting them on here (even though that only reaches a select few).

What would interest me (though it may be of little relevance here) is whether there are sort of off-the-shelf small football stadium plans/models out there which we might have accessed as an alternative to having one custom designed. Maybe there are but they are not suitable, or end up (Ikea style) having a spare floodlight pylon or a missing toilet block roof. Mere idle curiosity.

Alan - the plan developed by FWP was base on other comissions that they'd had. One of the reasons it was so cheap!!

 

[James Wood]

I take exception to this Blackie; the attendance at games is very well managed with EVERYBODY who comes through the turnstiles is accounted for and to suggest that this is not the case is bang out of order ......

Simon - no it isn't bang out of order, it is a disgrace.

To me Blackie is clearly questioning the honesty and integrity of you, Doreen and our fabulous Treasuer John Coates - who is probably the most principled and honest man I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

This would need your co-operation - and after the accusations he's made I'd fully understand if you'd decline my suggestion - but why don't we challenge Blackie to 'shadow' you, Doreen and John at a game of his choice so that he can see how you manage the turnstiles and ensure that the attendance and gate receipts are accurately recorded?

If nothing else it would show him how much we rely on our fabulous volunteer base to enable us to stage a game and without whom we'd be up you know what creek without the proverbial paddle....

 

[James Wood]

"You say a 1900 capacity ground, but we are basically talking about a tarmac area around a pitch, a few seats and floodlights".

So, I'd suggest that it would be a bit more than "a tarmac area around a pitch, a few seats and floodlights".

Didn't have time to mention that we'd also probaly like to include a kit / equipment / laundry room, some office acccomodation and some covered garage space to keep the mower and other ground maintainence equipment.

 

[Blackie]

Simon - no it isn't bang out of order, it is a disgrace.

To me Blackie is clearly questioning the honesty and integrity of you, Doreen and our fabulous Treasuer John Coates - who is probably the most principled and honest man I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

This would need your co-operation - and after the accusations he's made I'd fully understand if you'd decline my suggestion - but why don't we challenge Blackie to 'shadow' you, Doreen and John at a game of his choice so that he can see how you manage the turnstiles and ensure that the attendance and gate receipts are accurately recorded?

If nothing else it would show him how much we rely on our fabulous volunteer base to enable us to stage a game and without whom we'd be up you know what creek without the proverbial paddle....

Yes its totally disgraceful that i suggested you might have added one on to round the figure to a nice round better looking 200 ????????.....glad you haven't over reacted there James ????????.

 

[James Wood]

James, thank you for that long drawn out explanation, i did read most of it!
Obviously you consider that us mere mortals dont understand the highly technical job you and the engineering people do.....thank god we are still considered capable enough though to vote on the clubs important issues.....like next seasons away strip!.


I didnt say you did it without the boards backing, as you've clearly quoted above (in fact i never mentioned you by name at all!), Yes the board are supporters too but by supporters i meant the the members who pay their money each month and im sure an intelligent person like you (as you like to let us know), knew this.

Just a note, i wasn't off watching Vics at the time, i wasn't a member then just merely a supporter putting my money through the gate. When i asked i was told only members were privy to this info and that i would need to become one to get this, so i would question your statement that members AND supporters had this info. Members did, supporters were drip fed after the agm.
Thanks also for 'considering' asking our views at your special GM.....although deciding against it. Although that does make our fan run club sound slightly like the normal board run clubs.

Blackie - Given that I was the Board member who had the task of finding us a home in Northwich at the time that we as a Board agreed to go ahead with the development of the Generic stadium plan, I think that your statement that "The diagrams were a costly useless exercise carried out by a member of the board without any consultation with supporters" makes it quite clear whom you are making reference to.

You state in an earlier post that "you know me Jack i say on here no different than i do on the terraces" but clearly your previous comments demonstrate that you haven't got the guts to say this to me personally.

So given the evidence I have supplied, are you willing to retract your assertion that "the exercise was carried out by a member of the board without any consultation with supporters".

Go on. Surprise me.

 

[James Wood]

Yes its totally disgraceful that i suggested you might have added one on to round the figure to a nice round better looking 200 ????????.....glad you haven't over reacted there James ????????.

So why not add 51 to it and make it a nice round 250? Or maybe 101 to make it 300? The accusation still stands Blackie. You have accused Simon, Doreen and John of lying. And that is disgraceful.

 

[Tony]

So why not add 51 to it and make it a nice round 250? Or maybe 101 to make it 300? The accusation still stands Blackie. You have accused Simon, Doreen and John of lying. And that is disgraceful.

Absolute trust in our volunteers, much better than the JGFC inflatable system.

 

[Chubbs]

Blackie.
To any neutral reading this forum it would seem that you have a negative agenda regarding the running of our club.
Certainly listening to a cross section of the "200" you question attending today, that was the impression I got.
Just a thought. Instead of looking for non existent faults, try praising successful hard work.
And if you can't do that, if you are not already a member, join the club and put yourself up for membership of the board (I would vote for you) where you can see for yourself the work involved and if you can undoubtedly think of better ways of running the club, suggest them to be implemented?
Just saying.

Because from where I'm standing you just exude negativity with no rational alternatives.

 

[Kit]

Re Witton, we were really grateful to them for them allowing us to play 3 of our Vase games their last season. We developed a good professional relationship that benefited both clubs.

We also started to discuss a potential longer-term relationship, but due to a combination of the timescales involved in advising the FA / NWCFL where we would be playing this season (31 March), allied the intense pressures placed on all of us due to our fixture pile-up in March / April, we simply didn't have the time to progress any further discussions with Witton.

However, from the discussions we did have, it was clear that WAFC would expect a rental significantly greater than that which we are currently paying at Winsford. Indeed, it was similar to the value that they originally asked for back in 2013 when we first had negotiations with them re a possible ground share.

Clearly, there might have been some real benefits in us agreeing a ground share arrangement with WAFC in terms of increased gate reciepts / attendances. But these could not be guarenteed and without getting extra income from elsewhere, the significantly increased rental would have made our aim of setting a net-nil budget very challenging. Hence, on balance, the Board elected not to pursue this option.

Some might call this lack of ambition. To me, it is responsible stewardship of our club.

It’s a shame we felt there wasn’t time to get this sorted, however we could have started negotiations with Witton before the Vase run and maybe achieved a better deal. I wrote to the board long before then but I was told we had a deal to honour at Winsford which was why we weren’t approaching Witton - I found this frustrating. I believe we could have met the rent through increased crowds and other revenue streams. It was clear we were stagnating at Winsford in terms of gate numbers (kind of proven this season) and we handed the initiative to Vics on a plate - although I know they wouldn’t be able to pay the rent in their own like we would have to. They are now a club with momentum - it’ll all come crashing down again but at the moment they have the profile and we are invisible.
I really hope you are right and caution will win out in the long run and I do think the Barnton move is a good one. I just wish we had capitalised on publicity we had achieved through the Vase run. We had raised our profile in the town and I think we blew it a bit. It certainly hasn’t helped having a poor season - again we seemed to lack ambition in bringing players in but then maybe we didn’t have the budget too.
I urge the club to promote itself over the summer - we are ‘back in Northwich’ let’s get out there and tell people.

 

[Jack Owen]

It’s a shame we felt there wasn’t time to get this sorted, however we could have started negotiations with Witton before the Vase run and maybe achieved a better deal. I wrote to the board long before then but I was told we had a deal to honour at Winsford which was why we weren’t approaching Witton - I found this frustrating. I believe we could have met the rent through increased crowds and other revenue streams. It was clear we were stagnating at Winsford in terms of gate numbers (kind of proven this season) and we handed the initiative to Vics on a plate - although I know they wouldn’t be able to pay the rent in their own like we would have to. They are now a club with momentum - it’ll all come crashing down again but at the moment they have the profile and we are invisible.
I really hope you are right and caution will win out in the long run and I do think the Barnton move is a good one. I just wish we had capitalised on publicity we had achieved through the Vase run. We had raised our profile in the town and I think we blew it a bit. It certainly hasn’t helped having a poor season - again we seemed to lack ambition in bringing players in but then maybe we didn’t have the budget too.
I urge the club to promote itself over the summer - we are ‘back in Northwich’ let’s get out there and tell people.

Not looking to argue or anything, but our average home attendances this season have increased, I think. Don’t quote me on that???? however, Winsford United isnt a nice place to watch football, I can’t always blame people for not turning up especially when the weather isnt the best.

Agree with the pushing the club over the summer though mate, 100%, we need to do all we can to let the people of Northwich know we now play in Barnton. Couple of days in town with flyers, fixture lists etc will defintely help to raise awareness of our move to Barnton. And of course Andy Simpson no doubt will cover it in the Northwich guardian, which will help massively!

 

[Frank Fallows]

Currently being unable to attend games due to a most annoying hip problem that we "wrinklies'" do have to contend with occasionally,I read the web page as a daily duty, I am finding the accusations made in regard to the intended ground projects and gate figures as out of order, the suggestion of the Grange tie up was hilarious !!.

It is doubtful if any amatuar club in the land has a Committee as professional as we are fortunate to have, and may I suggest work far in excess of 48 hrs weekly in some cases, if you do not like what you get at the club look elsewhere for your footie fix , a simple solution !!.

 

[Blackie]

Blackie - Given that I was the Board member who had the task of finding us a home in Northwich at the time that we as a Board agreed to go ahead with the development of the Generic stadium plan, I think that your statement that "The diagrams were a costly useless exercise carried out by a member of the board without any consultation with supporters" makes it quite clear whom you are making reference to.

You state in an earlier post that "you know me Jack i say on here no different than i do on the terraces" but clearly your previous comments demonstrate that you haven't got the guts to say this to me personally.

So given the evidence I have supplied, are you willing to retract your assertion that "the exercise was carried out by a member of the board without any consultation with supporters".

Go on. Surprise me.

The statement wasn't directed at you James because i didnt know until you said so on this post that you were the person who carried out the task, im not in your in crowd!
I haven't discussed the subject on the terrace so i obviously have not said anything different on here, its the first time ive mentioned it.
I still think a wider amount of fans should have been asked about such a big spend and have no intention of retracting the statement. Very much have "the guts" to discuss this with you to your face!!!

 

[toddyb]

Here are the last 4 seasons gate's corresponding with yesterday's date.
3-3-15. 185
15-3-16 200
14-3-17 228 on 11-3-17 the gate was 352 but that was against Runcorn Linnets.
8-3-18 173
9-3-19 200.