Lockdowns
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
I see that the government’s new aim is to have all over 50s and vulnerable groups vaccinated by mid-April and then every adult by the end of July.
It will be interesting to see what this means for how long restrictions will be in place. We’ll know more in the roadmap tomorrow I’m sure.
It will be interesting to see what this means for how long restrictions will be in place. We’ll know more in the roadmap tomorrow I’m sure.
I think people are already taking matters into their own hands. I was in Tatton at the weekend and there were groups of people having picnics in out of the way places, and large groups of families mixing in play areas etc. Coffee on a bench is already happening too. If we get a decent spell of spring weather, I can see people meeting up in private gardens well before the due date at end of March. Personally if folks take care and it doesn't get out of hand it can only do people good and I can't see it being policed anyway.
It seems a balanced and proportionate approach to me. As long as Boris the Buffoon does as he says he’s going to do and relies on the data rather than dates and doesn’t cave in to the right wing loons who are calling for quicker relaxations then we should be ok.
This is, as you say Knutsfordian, assuming that people keep to the rules. That might be an increasing problem, particularly as more people are vaccinated.
Mention of which, I had my jab at Leighton last night and was super, super impressed with the whole process. Incredibly well organised and efficient.
Everyone associated with this deserves a massive pat on the back
So what about left wing people who want faster relaxations? Centre people too? Not everything is a “left - right” issue.
Also good new regarding the vaccine, of course. The light is at the end of the tunnel.
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I think that will find that a consistent feature of the pandemic is that it has been the right wing zealots - Young, Oakshott, Swayne, Baker and the rest of the ERG / CRG (one of the same imho) and the idiot MP from Shrewsbury who have been calling for early relaxations
Maajid Nawaz has been a leading anti lockdown voice. He isn’t “right wing”. He previously stood for the lib dems!
And the most fanatical Lockdown Enthusiast is Tory MP Niel O’Brien.
Your logic doesn’t hold much water.
So why are there so many Tory MPs in the CRG pressuring Johnson to relax the restrictions sooner?
My logic holds water as well as a
So why are there so many Tory MPs in the CRG pressuring Johnson to relax the restrictions sooner?
My logic holds water as well as a
Stop mistaking 650 MPs for 65million citizens. Of course the majority of MPs don’t care about the restrictions. They’ve sat at home on £80k, without a worry in the world.
Labour are just on the fence, none of them are open about how they really feel. Tory backbenchers are the only ones in parliament standing up against it. But that’s parliament.
But when you look at real people, and not politicians, there’s no correlation between a persons lockdown stance and their political position.
The real world is very different. I’m in my mid 20s, I can assure you that in the 25-30 age bracket there’s very few people who agree with the restrictions, and the majority of this people are left leaning. There is no correlation between political position and lockdown position in the real world.
James I’m very much a person of left-wing persuasion and I’ve been critical throughout of the lockdown and restrictions. If the data dictates then why not relax things quicker?
Where do I fit into your stereotype?
Ben - you are one of the very few people on the left who have consistently argued for a relaxed approach to lockdown measures. Although from the opposite side of the fence, so did Andy.
Unfortunately this government listened to the siren voices calling for major relaxations in restrictions over summer and Christmas and the entirety predictable result was a second wave which was massively bigger than the first.
I don’t agree with our ‘friend’ Knutsfordian on many matters, but we are aligned on this one.
The greater the contact between humans, the greater the spread of the virus, the higher number of cases, the more hospitalisations, the greater number of deaths, the bigger and more detrimental affect this has on routine healthcare and the ability of our economy to bounce back from the pandemic.
How anyone cannot grasp this simple example of the consequence of cause and effect is quite beyond me.
Andy - I would suggest that the reason that there are very few people in your age range that agree with the restrictions is that the risk to you of getting Covid or being seriously affected by it is pretty low. This is entirely understandable.
In the same way that people of my age and older - particularly those who have underlying health issues - tend to have greater support for the restrictions.
I think that you will find that good or bad, it is called human nature
Exactly my point James. Not much to do with how people voted, but how at risk they fee they are.
To be fair, I think we are all heartily sick of lockdown just that some are more vocal about it than others. From a government perspective, minsters have had torrents of abuse in relation to the 120,000 plus deaths, so its hardly surprising if they are extremely risk adverse at this point.
It's clear that people are nibbling at the edges of the restrictions by meeting family and friends, mostly in private locations. As vaccine delivery increases I can see this happening more often - especially in gardens as the weather improves. I think that if people are sensible, keep the numbers small and the meetings low key, there is much to be gained in terms of mental health to balance the risks. Unfortunately some people can't do quiet and sensible, so we end up with large gatherings that attract attention and the the zealots get more wound up and the pressure for enforcement increases.
Let common sense prevail, keep your distance, keep it safe and lets all get through this without further grief.
James, I don’t think political views have a big bearing on your stance on lockdowns. Age is definitely a big factor but also someone’s situation. If you’re a middle class professional, zoom meetings and a nice big garden is quite inviting. But if you’re a young couple living in a cramped flat, working from home, you’ll probably have a different view.Ben - you are one of the very few people on the left who have consistently argued for a relaxed approach to lockdown measures. Although from the opposite side of the fence, so did Andy.
Unfortunately this government listened to the siren voices calling for major relaxations in restrictions over summer and Christmas and the entirety predictable result was a second wave which was massively bigger than the first.
I don’t agree with our ‘friend’ Knutsfordian on many matters, but we are aligned on this one.
The greater the contact between humans, the greater the spread of the virus, the higher number of cases, the more hospitalisations, the greater number of deaths, the bigger and more detrimental affect this has on routine healthcare and the ability of our economy to bounce back from the pandemic.
How anyone cannot grasp this simple example of the consequence of cause and effect is quite beyond me.
I don’t disagree with your points about social contact but are you forgetting one big thing? The vaccine?
Ben - fully agree with your view that your stance will be influenced by your own personal circumstances.
I am lucky to have a lovely garden and both myself and my wife have said that lockdowns must be so tough on those who do not have access to their own space.
But as I have said from day one, my stance on lockdowns has been solely driven by the aim of keeping the pandemic under some sort of control so that it didn’t rip through the population and overwhelm the NHS to such an extent that all they were dealing with were Covid cases.
Had this truly dreadful government acted earlier and with more decisiveness when it was clear what was happening in Italy and Spain would hit us, then our death rates would not have been among the worst in the world.
Then they relaxed things over the summer when the R rate in many parts of the country was still well over 1 and then there was the free for all over Christmas which we now know has resulted in many thousands of needless deaths.
All because Boris and his chums wanted to be popular, appease the likes of the Daily Hiel, Toby Young, Farage, Oakshitt and the looney right (Francois, Baker, Swayne et al).
I agree with James on the first point, For anyone who doesn't have access to outside space then the last 12 months must have been quite traumatic - and to be fair completely unsustainable.
In the first lockdown folks were allowed out for an hour per day for exercise (or something akin to that) and I for one wouldn't and couldn't have adhered to that had I been living in an apartment. I think the emphasis all along should have been more on keeping distance and personal responsibility, but as ever the case many people look to "the rules" because firstly they can't think for themselves and secondly to give them an "out" when they don't comply. People give each other Covid - not governments !
The second part of his post where James drifts from keeping the Virus under control, which I do agree with, into an all out attack on the government, which as you might expect I don't agree with. There are a thousand and one reasons why the pandemic has hit the UK badly - and yes deaths are the worst in Europe, but when this is all over I don't think we will be seen not to be hugely out of step with France, Italy and Spain and there will be some huge credits on the other side of the balance sheet. Not least of which will be vaccinations.