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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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So its twelve months since the Cheltenham Racing Festival and the Liverpool match versus Atletico Madrid. Two events for which the government has been roundly condemned for allowing to go ahead. Listening to LBC this morning and a certain Nick Ferrari and it was reported that the scientific advisors were saying that there was no point in cancelling these events as the impact of letting them go ahead was immaterial. Matt Hancock and Dominic Cummins were arguing that they should be cancelled - but it cut no ice with the scientists. The government went with the scientists advice ! Not quite the line that has been played out for the last 12 months. Yet another example of not everything being what it seemed at the time
 
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Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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The UK death rate during the second wave of the pandemic was not the worst in Europe - but it remained one of the 10 worst-affected countries.
By the end of June 2020, the UK had the highest excess mortality in Europe, according to figures from the ONS.
But by December it had been overtaken by Poland, Spain, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Slovenia.
Nevertheless, the UK had one of the highest excess death rates among people under the age of 65 in 2020 at 7.7%.

so yet more evidence that the UK is not the worst affected country by this pandemic. I am not being complacent, it has been horrendous, but all this anti government rhetoric will be undone in the end. we need to focus on getting to the end of this rather than waging war against our own government - and yes according to the Germans wave 3 is on the way, so batten down the hatches, stay home this summer - oh but guess where the Brits will be and whose fault next winter's lockdown will be? People give other people covid - not the government ! Perhaps they ought to rename JET2 to COVIDFORYOU.Stay home, stay safe
 

Andy

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Jul 28, 2013
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Excellent news from Isreal. The R rate continues to fall despite their economy near enough being fully back open. This is with 83% of the population with atleast one dose, a figure the UK isn’t too far from.

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Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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In all the rhetoric that's being thrown around regarding vaccine nationalism, one thing that seems to be escaping our friends across the water is that the AZ vaccine is being made available at cost price of circa £2 a dose. So the UK's and AZ's contribution to fighting this pandemic is enormous. I am not sure I am hearing the same about other companies such as Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson (for example). the UK and AZ are also allowing the vaccine to be manufactured under licence across the world to assist with making the vaccine available to all. Isn't it about time some folks realised that AZ is doing more than most to help and stopped the relentless beating up of a great pharma company that is doing whatever it can
 

Alan M

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Jun 24, 2013
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Agreed, AZ's offer to supply the vaccine on a not-for-profit basis for the duration of the pandemic is to be applauded. Not sure how much credit the UK govt can take for the decision of a Swedish-UK pharma company though.

What has happened to all the voices criticising "the EU" for decisions made by individual countries both inside and outside the EU to limit use of AZ vaccines though, now that the UK has done similar? This is another example of people wrongly conflating EU/brexit and health decisions/policies.

More worrying at the moment is the appearance of a double mutation in India which shows signs of being more vaccine-resistant. What has happened (again) to learning lessons? At the very least India should be on the red list of travel-quarantine countries. I am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with Johnson's impending trade visit to India, though.
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Agreed, AZ's offer to supply the vaccine on a not-for-profit basis for the duration of the pandemic is to be applauded. Not sure how much credit the UK govt can take for the decision of a Swedish-UK pharma company though.

What has happened to all the voices criticising "the EU" for decisions made by individual countries both inside and outside the EU to limit use of AZ vaccines though, now that the UK has done similar? This is another example of people wrongly conflating EU/brexit and health decisions/policies.

More worrying at the moment is the appearance of a double mutation in India which shows signs of being more vaccine-resistant. What has happened (again) to learning lessons? At the very least India should be on the red list of travel-quarantine countries. I am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with Johnson's impending trade visit to India, though.
Well we don't know what the UK government asked from AZ - but just assuming that AZ volunteered to produce the vaccine at cost their actions are to be applauded none the less. It's not about the UK taking credit - but credit does need to go to AZ they have been top drawer and way above any foreign comparison.

The whole question of international travel is debateable. That said, people want holidays, want to visit their families and the pressure for travel just grows and grows. I'm not sure I could steer a pathway through all that crap!
 
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Andy

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As much as I’d love to go on holiday this year. I’d rather have a summer of normality here, not being ruined by a variant from overseas.

The rest of the world is catching up with vaccines now, it wouldn’t have to be long
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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As much as I’d love to go on holiday this year. I’d rather have a summer of normality here, not being ruined by a variant from overseas.

The rest of the world is catching up with vaccines now, it wouldn’t have to be long
That's spot on.

What worries me is not especially the place your going to visit having Covid, but the mingling of travellers at airports that are visiting countries on the red and amber lists. Returning travellers might have to quarantine when they get through border controls - but they are sharing the same airport space as everyone else whilst in transit. One infected traveller could infect unknown numbers of people whilst at border controls, security and shopping in the airport
 
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James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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So its twelve months since the Cheltenham Racing Festival and the Liverpool match versus Atletico Madrid. Two events for which the government has been roundly condemned for allowing to go ahead. Listening to LBC this morning and a certain Nick Ferrari and it was reported that the scientific advisors were saying that there was no point in cancelling these events as the impact of letting them go ahead was immaterial. Matt Hancock and Dominic Cummins were arguing that they should be cancelled - but it cut no ice with the scientists. The government went with the scientists advice ! Not quite the line that has been played out for the last 12 months. Yet another example of not everything being what it seemed at the time
Brazil. India. Turkey. The USA. The U.K. Russia. All lead by overtly nationalist, populist and right wing leaders. All with a massive Covid death rate. Coincidence? I think not.
 

Andy

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Jul 28, 2013
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Brazil. India. Turkey. The USA. The U.K. Russia. All lead by overtly nationalist, populist and right wing leaders. All with a massive Covid death rate. Coincidence? I think not.

Spain? Italy? Belgium? France? Even the much acclaimed Germany is now closing in on 100k deaths.

What about Isreal and their Nationalist Gov? One of the lowest death rates in Europe/ (if you consider them in Europe)

So there isn’t the link you’re trying to make.

25% of UK deaths weren’t caused by Covid, so when you adjust the UK figure to the way the majority of the world accumulate the data, the UK has faired no better or worse than our European neighbours.

Europe was always going to be hit hard. What makes Europe so great is the ease of travel and international cities, but when it comes to a virus, that’s not the best thing.
 
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Edge

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Jun 24, 2013
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25% of UK deaths weren’t caused by Covid, so when you adjust the UK figure to the way the majority of the world accumulate the data, the UK has faired no better or worse than our European neighbours.

What's your evidence for the 25% figure?
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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Spain? Italy? Belgium? France? Even the much acclaimed Germany is now closing in on 100k deaths.

What about Isreal and their Nationalist Gov? One of the lowest death rates in Europe/ (if you consider them in Europe)

So there isn’t the link you’re trying to make.

25% of UK deaths weren’t caused by Covid, so when you adjust the UK figure to the way the majority of the world accumulate the data, the UK has faired no better or worse than our European neighbours.

Europe was always going to be hit hard. What makes Europe so great is the ease of travel and international cities, but when it comes to a virus, that’s not the best thing.
Ah yes, the ease of travel. We all remember that don’t we? One of the ‘freedoms’ we had that was removed thanks to Brexit🤬
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Ah yes, the ease of travel. We all remember that don’t we? One of the ‘freedoms’ we had that was removed thanks to Brexit🤬
your getting the reasons and consequences mixed up James. The EU can't wait for all those UK tourists spending their £billions in the EU to help save their (EU) struggling economies - and no one is stopping you going because of Brexit, just Covid !!
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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your getting the reasons and consequences mixed up James. The EU can't wait for all those UK tourists spending their £billions in the EU to help save their (EU) struggling economies - and no one is stopping you going because of Brexit, just Covid !!
So why are British citizens In Spain, Portugal et al having to come home because they no longer have the right to stay in the home that they’ve saved up for and planned to retire in for more than 6 months a year.

And strangely enough, because of Covid we’ve not seen what the full implications of Brexit will be on our ease and ability to travel in the EU.

But hey-ho, at least we’ve got our 🐠 🐟 back! 😉👍🤫
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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So why are British citizens In Spain, Portugal et al having to come home because they no longer have the right to stay in the home that they’ve saved up for and planned to retire in for more than 6 months a year.

And strangely enough, because of Covid we’ve not seen what the full implications of Brexit will be on our ease and ability to travel in the EU.

But hey-ho, at least we’ve got our 🐠 🐟 back! 😉👍🤫
There's a difference between travel and residency
 
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Andy

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Jul 28, 2013
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So why are British citizens In Spain, Portugal et al having to come home because they no longer have the right to stay in the home that they’ve saved up for and planned to retire in for more than 6 months a year.

And strangely enough, because of Covid we’ve not seen what the full implications of Brexit will be on our ease and ability to travel in the EU.

But hey-ho, at least we’ve got our 🐠 🐟 back! 😉👍🤫

Wealthy people being inconvenienced by having to fill out extra paper work for their second home in Tuscany is hardly and argument against Brexit.
 
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Phil Bradley

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Wealthy people being inconvenienced by having to fill out extra paper work for their second home in Tuscany is hardly and argument against Brexit.
People, wealthy or otherwise have homes abroad. Not necessarily second homes, for example pensioners retiring to Europe. Having to register and pay for biometric permits to secure their rights as resident in an EU country before the end of the transition period. Many are having problems regardless of their position on Brexit. Many were denied a vote in the referendum. For them it is a real argument against Brexit. I don't know the numbers but I suspect it is upwards of a million people, with the majority in Spain, followed by France, Portugal, Greece and so on. The million I suggested is probably rather conservative. Then there is swapping driving licences and a number of other considerations even down to the cost of receiving packages from the UK, Amazon, gifts, other stuff.