• Hello Guest, You'll need to login or signup to be able to post on here.

Lockdowns

Edge said:
Would it help if the Daily Mail talked about Pestfix ?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Small family-run pest control firm won £108m contract to procure PPE

A family-run pest control company that employs just 16 people was awarded a £108million contract to supply the NHS with PPE at the height of the coronavirus pandemic, it has emerged.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Nothing wrong with a 16 people Pest Control company with assets of less than £20k winning a £108 million contract for supplying PPE is there?
Click to expand...
But do you actually know that the contract was awarded through foul means, that the people didn't have the skills to deliver the contract? On the face of it the award of the contract seems disproportionate to the size of the company - but did they deliver?
 
At last Piers Morgan is exhorting people to follow social distancing rules instead of rubbishing them - long, long overdue !
 
On the subject of Keir Starmer. Knutsfordian, I do think anyone looking at this objectively would give credit when it’s due to the Labour leader. Wiping out a 20 point Tory lead to level and even be ahead in some polls is some achievement.
On another note, furlough being extended until March would maybe indicate months more of restrictions and maybe another lockdown at some point.
 
Oh don't get me wrong, compared to Corbyn, Keir Starmer is a different kettle of fish. Very analytical and superb on detail. He has lots of qualities that Boris doesn't. So at the moment he is scoring points for fun and as an opposition leader I think he will have success. I just don't think that he is inspirational in the way that Blair or John Smith could be. They were brilliant in front of the microphone. He also lacks a really competent wing man/woman. At a time of the lowest number of Labour MPs for decades, that's perhaps not surprising - but they need to search the Labour and Union ranks and seek out new talent (as do the Conservatives albeit to a lesser extent). They also need to take on Nicola Sturgeon. They must not lose Scotland, otherwise a lifetime in opposition beckons in my view. This country will not elect a hard leftwing government, but Scotland may and therein lies Labour's dilemma. That gap can only be bridged by an inspirational leader who can persuade the Scots that Nicola Sturgeon is a fraud, selling a cure all with no benefits at all. Its a big ask and I don't think Karmer is that man.

The swing in polls isn't surprising really. The government has been hammered at every turn, unfairly or not it has been relentless. I don't think any UK government would have fared any better, but that's a personal view obviously not shared by too many on this forum.

As for lockdowns, my argument against the circuit breaker was that it would not achieve any lasting benefits. It's a cycle of lockup and lock down. It will be interesting to see what benefits are claimed in Wales. I think we need to roll out the vaccine and take the risk on effectiveness (assuming its actually safe of course!). The message has to be whether lock down or not, peeps MUST social distance and avoid packed places of any sort - but trouble is many people like crowds and the opportunity and the pizzazz that comes with it, so they take the risks
 
Knutsfordian said:
Oh don't get me wrong, compared to Corbyn, Keir Starmer is a different kettle of fish. Very analytical and superb on detail. He has lots of qualities that Boris doesn't. So at the moment he is scoring points for fun and as an opposition leader I think he will have success. I just don't think that he is inspirational in the way that Blair or John Smith could be. They were brilliant in front of the microphone. He also lacks a really competent wing man/woman. At a time of the lowest number of Labour MPs for decades, that's perhaps not surprising - but they need to search the Labour and Union ranks and seek out new talent (as do the Conservatives albeit to a lesser extent). They also need to take on Nicola Sturgeon. They must not lose Scotland, otherwise a lifetime in opposition beckons in my view. This country will not elect a hard leftwing government, but Scotland may and therein lies Labour's dilemma. That gap can only be bridged by an inspirational leader who can persuade the Scots that Nicola Sturgeon is a fraud, selling a cure all with no benefits at all. Its a big ask and I don't think Karmer is that man.

The swing in polls isn't surprising really. The government has been hammered at every turn, unfairly or not it has been relentless. I don't think any UK government would have fared any better, but that's a personal view obviously not shared by too many on this forum.

As for lockdowns, my argument against the circuit breaker was that it would not achieve any lasting benefits. It's a cycle of lockup and lock down. It will be interesting to see what benefits are claimed in Wales. I think we need to roll out the vaccine and take the risk on effectiveness (assuming its actually safe of course!). The message has to be whether lock down or not, peeps MUST social distance and avoid packed places of any sort - but trouble is many people like crowds and the opportunity and the pizzazz that comes with it, so they take the risks
Click to expand...
I’m becoming increasingly worried by the fact that I’m increasingly agreeing with you on an Increasing number of points!
 
Phil Bradley said:
Do you mean like Brexit?
Click to expand...
You really do need to stop seeing things through the prism of Brexit.

The issue of Scottish Independence, I think, has more far reaching implications than Brexit, both for the people of Scotland and the UK as a whole. Countries that have worked and fought side by side for over 300 years splitting apart will make Brexit look like a walk in the park. It is beholden on all our parties to fight for the Union. You might like to think that Scottish Independence can be framed as a victory against those nasty Tories and to be something you can live with, but the reality is that without that tranche of Scottish Labour MPs, Conservatives will almost certainly maintain an unending effective majority in Parliament.
 
To paraphrase George Orwell:- British Union good, European Union bad?
 
Knutsfordian said:
Oh don't get me wrong, compared to Corbyn, Keir Starmer is a different kettle of fish. Very analytical and superb on detail. He has lots of qualities that Boris doesn't. So at the moment he is scoring points for fun and as an opposition leader I think he will have success. I just don't think that he is inspirational in the way that Blair or John Smith could be. They were brilliant in front of the microphone. He also lacks a really competent wing man/woman. At a time of the lowest number of Labour MPs for decades, that's perhaps not surprising - but they need to search the Labour and Union ranks and seek out new talent (as do the Conservatives albeit to a lesser extent). They also need to take on Nicola Sturgeon. They must not lose Scotland, otherwise a lifetime in opposition beckons in my view. This country will not elect a hard leftwing government, but Scotland may and therein lies Labour's dilemma. That gap can only be bridged by an inspirational leader who can persuade the Scots that Nicola Sturgeon is a fraud, selling a cure all with no benefits at all. Its a big ask and I don't think Karmer is that man.

The swing in polls isn't surprising really. The government has been hammered at every turn, unfairly or not it has been relentless. I don't think any UK government would have fared any better, but that's a personal view obviously not shared by too many on this forum.

As for lockdowns, my argument against the circuit breaker was that it would not achieve any lasting benefits. It's a cycle of lockup and lock down. It will be interesting to see what benefits are claimed in Wales. I think we need to roll out the vaccine and take the risk on effectiveness (assuming its actually safe of course!). The message has to be whether lock down or not, peeps MUST social distance and avoid packed places of any sort - but trouble is many people like crowds and the opportunity and the pizzazz that comes with it, so they take the risks
Click to expand...

Agree that we should be aiming to get out of this cycle of lockdowns. To do this government needs to be working on sorting out hospital capacity and ensuring test, track and trace is properly functioning. And yes, an effective vaccine rolled out as quickly as possible, should be a part of that.
We should be doing everything possible to avoid a third lockdown in the future.
 
I think the dependence that's been built on test, track and place is misplaced. Once the volumes of infection reach certain levels it becomes impossible to track everyone affected and there is now some doubt about the quality of the test that's required to allow mass testing at the numbers required. We also have to take into the equation that people don't want to be tracked and traced. They are downloading their own QR code to avoid being identified within locations and times. The only way that this country will avoid lockdown is by social distancing and avoiding contact. When we accept that and change our behaviours, then we may be on the way to avoiding more lock downs
 
Agree that there’s an element of personal responsibility as well as the government getting their house in order.

I’ve just seen a poll that has Labour 5 points ahead of the Tories by 40 to 35. Seems like more and more are losing confidence in Boris’s leadership over this whole thing.
 
Its irrelevant really - it's 4 years to the next election. Governments have suffered far worse polls in the past and have come back to win the next election. But yes agree it shows people are generally not happy at the moment - but would you expect them to be?
 
Boris was your man Knutsfordian are you now saying you were wrong?.
 
Cases have fallen over the last 7 days. All before the lockdown. No doubt in a few weeks the Government and opposition will claim it’s down to the lockdown to justify their stupidity

C720FC07-C047-4D00-B88C-491AAC6A3B02.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ben
Andy said:
Cases have fallen over the last 7 days. All before the lockdown. No doubt in a few weeks the Government and opposition will claim it’s down to the lockdown to justify their stupidity

View attachment 2067
Click to expand...



I don't think its down to government "stupidity". I think there is little doubt that having decided to gown the Tiered route, the scientists and medics bounced the government into changing tack due to possible impacts of the second wave on the NHS. Given the sheer abuse the government got for excess deaths in the spring, they were never going to take the risk that it may happen again. From his appearance in the Commons, I don't think Boris is a true believer in the lock down, but now has to see it through.

With regard to Boris being the right man,, this is obviously a scenario that no one envisaged at election time and one which I think few people could handle better. There's a long time to go before another election and I still think Brexit will define Boris's time as PM. If he lets go of fishing rights he will be done for
 
Cases down? That's infections recorded arising from testing results, and many people are known to be avoiding testing even with symptoms, (a) because it is still not always easy to get a test (b) because after testing you have to isolate while awaiting results - sometimes for several days (c) because they don't want to isolate on no pay if positive. Selfish but true. Case down here continue to rise. More important is hospital admissions - if hospitals have to divert staff, beds and resources to covid patients they can't at the same time treat non-covid patients. As Knutsfordian says, people need to observe the basics of virus control which are in their hands (in part literally) and not to follow the "I'm all right Jack" approach modelled by far too many both high-profile and 'ordinary' public.

Contracts and alleged corruption? Currently all contracts are not awarded through the usual tendering/procurement process but under the covid emergency legislation which allows the govt to bypass normal routes and award essentially in secret and at will to whomever they wish. The number of contracts awarded to companies with connections to Tory MPs and donors is I am sure a complete coincidence. The number of companies awarded contracts despite having no track record in the service or goods they are contracted to provide (and in some cases no track record in anything at all, having only recently been formed as a company - the "Seaborne Ferry syndrome") is I am sure merely an unfortunate oversight in the due diligence process. The number of companies which have then failed to deliver what they were contracted to supply can no doubt be explained by unforeseen circumstances, and indeed may eventually be seen to lie at the feet of the EU. The fact that none of the contracts include a government exit clause to protect against non-fulfilment and recoup any taxpayer money paid is probably down to a computer glitsch in drawing the documents up. And if you believe all of that then there really is no hope any more.
 
Alan M said:
Contracts and alleged corruption? Currently all contracts are not awarded through the usual tendering/procurement process but under the covid emergency legislation which allows the govt to bypass normal routes and award essentially in secret and at will to whomever they wish. The number of contracts awarded to companies with connections to Tory MPs and donors is I am sure a complete coincidence. The number of companies awarded contracts despite having no track record in the service or goods they are contracted to provide (and in some cases no track record in anything at all, having only recently been formed as a company - the "Seaborne Ferry syndrome") is I am sure merely an unfortunate oversight in the due diligence process. The number of companies which have then failed to deliver what they were contracted to supply can no doubt be explained by unforeseen circumstances, and indeed may eventually be seen to lie at the feet of the EU. The fact that none of the contracts include a government exit clause to protect against non-fulfilment and recoup any taxpayer money paid is probably down to a computer glitsch in drawing the documents up. And if you believe all of that then there really is no hope any more.
Click to expand...

I think to run the normal tendering and procurement process during the pandemic is probably a big ask, given the need to act at speed and make sure that (say) PPE is procured to meet the definite and immediate need. That said, I would expect procurement professionals to have a feel for the job and the nous to be able to sense whether the deal they are seeking to do feels "right". I have no doubts that mistakes have been made, but I continue to hold the belief that most people within public services are not by default corrupt. As in any walk of life there are those who are helpless, hopeless and inept and I have no doubt that within such a huge expenditure there is some fraud - but when the frenzy abates, I would expect the auditing authorities to identify these instances and bring the culprits to justice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top