• Hello Guest, You'll need to login or signup to be able to post on here.

JRFC Potential Ground Share rumour, speculation, hearsay

This is not about Witton putting more money into the playing budget but to keep control of rising costs and debts at the club, we do not have a benefactor so have to use what we have to raise fund our grounds our biggest asset so we are using it to raise funds I don't know where Vics get there money no more than you do, the police and the FA are the people who do this if Rushe, or Nuttall want to put there money into a club that is there choice. In truth we are at no risk if they pay upfront if they default they will not be groundsharing and will go out of existence. Yes we had a CVA against us due to an errant benefactor but we paid our way and 100 percent too, we wil never be like Vics they will be simply paying tenants. You make your choice stay at Winsford, Vics make there choice and we make ours, good luck in raising your millions needed to build a new ground of your own, Nantwich cost £4 million, Fcum cost £6million you won't get much in your budget !
 
The time is exactly right for '74' to move into WP and pay a market rent ---- if you are a Witton fan. But we're not Witton fans and we don't want to get into the kind of debt you are in or Vics are in by acting too quickly.
It's down to timing and at the moment it isn't right for us. Initial indications are that '74' have done well so far, have money in the bank (which obviously you would like to get into your bank) and are building at a pace that doesn't put us at financial risk. Gates are encouraging with about 300 people paying into the 200 club (renaming must be imminent?) in addition and healthy support at other fund raising events. The support at both our clubs is about the same so presume you are taking in as much money as us and probably more so, given your financial state ( I see on your forum one Witton fan is questioning whether you have a future?), surely you can understand our caution.
What we have and are continuing to build is as precious to us as Witton is to you.
As for Rushe and Vics they will remain of interest to us because of the history, it would be stupid to think people will erase it from their memories because we have a new club. I'm also interested in music, politics, football at all levels and many other things so it's not interfering, paranoid or anything else sinister. It's life.
 
Hopefully it will finish vics off for good it needs To be put to bed now,wonder if ground share includes flixton villa playing their fixtures there as well?
 
How can any bid be too low when Witton are currently receiving nothing?
Anything is more than nothing.

This is a cunning ploy by Witton to get as much rent as they can from Vics, by inventing that 1874 want to groundshare as well!
Whether 1874 are interested or not, Vics are without a ground as from the start of next season and Witton can cleverly hold them to ransom. They know that one green team will never speak to the other green team to divulge the amount of rent being offered to play in Wincham.

Of course, whether Witton receive that money is a different matter. Why did Vics spend a season playing in Stafford? Why didn't other Cheshire clubs offer their ground? Had they done a credit check also?
 
Still the same Question,do Witton fans not care where the money is going to come from?.Is it a Question you do not wish to answer?
 
A bid can be too low when there is a minimum cost to put a game on, and when you already have a healthy bid on the table, Witton are playing no games here Vics can stay at Flixton if needed but prefer to be back in Northwich and have made an indicative bid to which you had a chance to respond but apparently bid low. Some things have changed at Vics to allow Witton to consider a ground share as tenants, I don't know what that is but perhaps the personnel have changed ?
Toddy why do we need to worry about where the money comes from ! We are a football club wishing to rent an asset, Vics are willing to rent that asset, they will because of past experience have to pay us up front in rental terms or no deal. Where Vics get the money from is not our primary concern ! rumour and innuendo about this do not count nor indeed your thoughts, the FA the taxman and the police are the effective body to control this aspect and until proven different Vics money is as good as yours.
 
Toddy said:
Still the same Question,do Witton fans not care where the money is going to come from?.Is it a Question you do not wish to answer?
Click to expand...
Yes, I care where it is coming from but I have faith that our board will do all necessary checks/due diligence on the CURRENT personnel responsible for Vics or indeed any other club that wishes to ground share Wincham Park with us. If the said checks are not satisfactory then I as a supporter of Witton Albion would not support the decision.
 
Very pleased to hear your position Paul,I am sure many other Wittoner's will be of the same opinion.
 
You need to get in the real world, Witton board do not have the power to check the integrity of where a persons wealth comes from, in this case it may fron Rushe privately, from Derek Nuttall, or other associate investors in Vics, if they provide the money to Vics for rental then how do Witton prove anything as I said before we are not about policing the football world other bodies do that- so Vics money is and has to be taken in good faith if proven differently then I am sure the money will dry up and or the Witton board will terminate the lease, I do suspect though it will prove not to be a long term deal, so maybe in 2-3 years we might be talking about this again with you as prospective tenants ?
 
CJ we are in the real world that's why we formed our club,to get away from Mr Rushe.As you say Witton's board do not have the power of the police or F.A.,but have they asked where it is going to come.Or is it the case of just as long as they get it they are not interested where it comes from?.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ben
C.J said:
You need to get in the real world, Witton board do not have the power to check the integrity of where a persons wealth comes from, in this case it may fron Rushe privately, from Derek Nuttall, or other associate investors in Vics, if they provide the money to Vics for rental then how do Witton prove anything as I said before we are not about policing the football world other bodies do that- so Vics money is and has to be taken in good faith if proven differently then I am sure the money will dry up and or the Witton board will terminate the lease, I do suspect though it will prove not to be a long term deal, so maybe in 2-3 years we might be talking about this again with you as prospective tenants ?
Click to expand...
CJ, as a fellow Wittoner, I just can not agree any less with that nonsense regarding checking the ownership of vics or any one else that would wish to rent our ground.
 
We can ask but what are they going to say ! They are not going to say anything that puts them in the wrong even if they are but we won't know, how can we, I am sure the answer would be from individual backers, we can ask who that is but again the answer will be either of the big names at Vics or they will plead anonimity as to the backer, I assume the deal will last as long as the backing does or until anything untoward is brought to the attention of the Witton officials that they need to consider. I can see you won't like it - I am not that keen but it has to be taken at face value.
 
I'm sure if anyone wanted to check who own's Vic's there must be a record some where.
 
C.J said:
We can ask but what are they going to say ! They are not going to say anything that puts them in the wrong even if they are but we won't know, how can we, I am sure the answer would be from individual backers, we can ask who that is but again the answer will be either of the big names at Vics or they will plead anonimity as to the backer, I assume the deal will last as long as the backing does or until anything untoward is brought to the attention of the Witton officials that they need to consider. I can see you won't like it - I am not that keen but it has to be taken at face value.
Click to expand...
I trust the board to make the decision, or not, that all funds received by Witton Albion will be from a satisfactory source. If it is proven I will support the decision. If it is not, I will not support the decision. It's as simple as that for me.
 
I don't think finding out who the owner / directors will be an issue but proving any funds provided by the club for rent are somehow dishonest or illegal would be and it is that specific point I'm trying to make- until proven different
Anyway nothing lost for you ! you can stay sharing at Winsford and We own our ground and Vics may come and share, your support should stay strong, Vics may pick up some old support back, we should improve our financial position. Nobody loses.
 
That's a very dangerous game your playing cj. Innocent until proven guilty? I'm afraid you can't teach an old dog new tricks bud, you say no one losses? In my honest opinion I feel that one day this would bite Witton so hard! I do hope I'm wrong though truly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ben
I don't think it's realistic to expect Witton to check how Vics are financed before accepting them as tenants. It's up to the FA and/or leagues to say who is legitimate. It won't actually work any other way. Football is a dirty business and we know that better than most.
As regards CJ' s discussion about what Witton were asking for rent and what he thinks we offered (remember the confidentiality agreement?) the fact we differ is not to say either is wrong. What it's worth to a club higher up the pyramid is different to what a still small NWCL club less than two season's old can afford or think is worth a gamble.
It's not really relevant to us or our forum but as this has been a sensible discussion between both sets of fans I'll say it anyway. 2 points:
1) I wonder how deep in trouble Witton are and how much this will help them overall. If Vics pay it all up front (and looking at the more pessimistic posts on your board) the full amount will probably not clear big debts. The small amount of extra income from bar and tea hut etc will not be great so something else needs to change.
2) If the situation doesn't improve I wonder how long before Rushe wants to 'invest' in your club. Be careful I wouldn't wish that even on Witton! But sometimes needs must ...........!

Interesting times ahead for both our clubs? :rolleyes:
 
Don't forget Rushe's bankruptcy ststus - so he won't be financing any tenancy agreement (well, not directly anyway ;)). And to correct one CJ point ("Vics can stay at Flixton") - that's the whole point, they can't after this season.
 
Edge, cheers for the cooling off period....... I needed that.

C.J said:
A bid can be too low when there is a minimum cost to put a game on, and when you already have a healthy bid on the table, Witton are playing no games here Vics can stay at Flixton if needed but prefer to be back in Northwich and have made an indicative bid to which you had a chance to respond but apparently bid low.
Click to expand...
In 'my opinion' Witton's intention is to force a bidding war involving JRFC and 1874. Whether that bidding war has been invented will never be known due to confidential agreement(s) but it certainly works in Witton's favour, in more ways than one.

C.J said:
Some things have changed at Vics to allow Witton to consider a ground share as tenants, I don't know what that is but perhaps the personnel have changed ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing has changed at Vics other than Jim Rushe being made bankrupt for the second time in as many years resulting in failing the FA's Fit and proper Persons's Test and received a FA Director ban. Martin Rushe is the sole director and Derek Nuttall the perceived Chairman. How strange that Rushe's bankruptcy works in his favour but why should it, Derek Nuttall is no saint, he along with Stone and Rafferty were the catalyst that precipitated the downfall of Vics after the Drill Field move the biggest and most destructive incompetent business project management balls up in the clubs long history, that ultimately led to the clubs demise and current status via Connett and Rushe. Not a great legacy for Derek to leave behind but never mind he's conveniently been given another opportunity to turn it all around and now Derek is the legitimate chairman and Rushe has nothing to do with JRFC anymore, everything is fluffy clouds and cuddly teddy bears.

C.J said:
Toddy why do we need to worry about where the money comes from ! We are a football club wishing to rent an asset, Vics are willing to rent that asset, they will because of past experience have to pay us up front in rental terms or no deal. Where Vics get the money from is not our primary concern ! rumour and innuendo about this do not count nor indeed your thoughts, the FA the taxman and the police are the effective body to control this aspect and until proven different Vics money is as good as yours.
Click to expand...

HMRC says it is a concern http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatfmanual/VATF73000.htm

The fact that JRFC current accounts are running at MINUS £267,000 with £2k in the bank should ring alarm bells and fully satisfy due diligence.

To believe that JRFC is being financially supported by investors is ludicrous to as to invest is to put money to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income or appreciation in value. You don't invest to accumulate debt unless you're trying to avoid paying something else.

To say that this ground share is nothing to do with 1874 is correct but we all have the right to voice our opinions and 1874 fans are the best source of information, maybe not impartial but at least detailed, truthful and honest. Ultimately the decision is Witton's Board, I don't even think that their fans will have a say and I'm not sure the shareholders will either however I think Witton would be prudent to ask and consider advice from their fan base if not to understand the fans feelings at least to remain respectful.

To say that it's in our interest to provide such information is correct, we don't won't to see JRFC return to Northwich but nor should any other morally correct person, club or business. That’s not a sitting on my high horse trotting on the high moral ground comment, it’s personal to every individual on how they interpret the differences between what is right and what is wrong.

To believe that a return to Northwich will affect 1874 is nonsense, if fans leave to watch JRFC then they never believed in the fundamental reasons for forming 1874. Personally I pity any fans returning to support JRFC, hearing that Nuttall has questioned how many traitors will return, on that basis I feel those that do will be treated with complete contempt, suspicion and back stabbing by the small minority of deluded and brainwashed fans that remained. Does anyone find it strange that no JRFC fans have involved themselves in these discussions, what does that tell you? That their following is so insignificant that the secret of ground share can to silenced between this small clique. We all know that they're waiting to have the last laugh but it won't only be at 1874, it'll also be a laugh at Witton who will be in JRFC's pockets, it'll also be a slap in the face and kick in the nuts for JRFC's creditors.

Associated links
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top