General Election 2017

[toddyb]

See what I mean.

 

[Alan M]

Poole have shut most of their beach-front public toilets. 7 miles of glorious beaches to attract the family holidaymakers, but nowhere to go for a pee.

 

[paul]

But Paul, can you please advise us of what "The Plan" consists of?

Don't know exact details yet as, quite rightly, the Government will not be releasing them before entering into negotiations with the EU. I would hope that the plan includes regaining control of our borders, laws and money rather than them being dictated to us by an unelected, undemocratic body.

If you can, then you are clearly a major player in HM Government because it appears to most of us that no one in high office has frankly the first idea as to what "The Plan" is.

I would happily negotiate with the EU if the Government wanted me to. No chance would they get anything like 60 million euros as an exit fee if it were down to me.

Seems to me that the phrase "Bloody shambles" sums the present position re HM Government re this matter.

And Labour's position is what exactly? Give us a clue?

Which given the massive importance that this issue has and will continue to have on all of our lives over the next decade or more is a damning indictment on the party that has got us into this dreadful situation.

Depressing reading!! This is the most fantastic opportunity the UK has had in 40 years. The world is our oyster without the shackles of the EU.

Thanks to the utter self interest of the 'Nasty Party', we know find ourselves outside of our biggest market and in an unequal battle of 27 v 1 (which we will never win).

I heard that we contribute more to the EU than 20 0f the 27 counties you are referring to collectively. The EU needs us as much as we need them. A sensible trade agreement can and will be achieved. If it isn't it's a massive loss for the EU, we hold the stronger cards.

Oh, and remind me. How much of that £350M per week that the 'Out' campaign said would be directed back to the NHS has so far found its way into its coffers?

Don't have exact figures but the money saved from being outside the EU should indeed be put into the NHS, Social Housing, Social Care and many other areas in our country that is starved of cash. It could well be that Labour will have to deal with the money saved in a couple of years time, would you not trust them with it either?

I'll tell you.

Nowt. Zero. Bugger all. Diddly squat. Zippo.

 

[paul]

Poole have shut most of their beach-front public toilets. 7 miles of glorious beaches to attract the family holidaymakers, but nowhere to go for a pee.

Some of the money saved from not being in the EU can be used towards new public toilets on our beach fronts where people can go to "spend a penny"

 

[Knutsfordian]

The question of closing waste facilities to accommodate cuts? Why is it then that a few miles down the road these waste sites work normally? Is it really a question of how a labour administration allocates its funding? There's no doubt that some councils seem to manage their spending better than others. I am not suggesting that there are not challenges - as there are in every business, every day in the private sector - but in the private sector people find solutions and get on with it whilst in the public sector they seem to wail, wring their hands and cry. OK that's harsh, but there is definitely a middle ground where councils and public services have to drive greater efficiency.For example why does every local council have its own council tax collection function, why do all constabularies have their own local management, why aren't there more shared services (HR for example)? Even now after all this time there are still huge areas where money could be better spent, but public bodies don't seem able to grasp the nettle.

 

[Alan M]

Paul, I can't work out whether the EU money comment was serious or not.

There are plenty of good toilet facilities here, but Poole have closed the majority in their latest attempt to balance their diminishing budget, saying they want cafe owners etc to take up the challenge by opening the facilities to the wider public. Just as libraries have closed except where volunteers have been found to keep them open. Just as waste facilities have gone part-time, with charges introduced for various previously 'acceptable' forms of household waste (eg my neighbour replaced their toilet a few weeks ago - I see a theme developing here! - and was charged £5 to dispose of the old one). Just as parking costs have risen to £2/hour. Just as the area's carer's support service has just been abolished. Just as children's centres have closed. The list goes on. And then look how many police stations have closed in the past few years - my nearest one is now 7 miles away in Poole, rather than us having the East Dorset HQ a mile away.

But I must correct myself on an earlier post - the council funding cuts here are not 40% but 56% in Poole and 68% in East Dorset. That was not a typo.

And we already have pooled admin services down here just outside Poole for almost everything, including council tax collection, household waste sites and a shared Chief Exec of councils.

And it won't surprise anyone to hear that all the councils in this area are the deepest shade of blue. It is increasingly a case not of choosing how to spend the money but which services to try to save from closure, given that certain aspects of social care are statutory services which by law cannot be cut.

On an unconnected point, the big news yesterday was that Bournemouth Council was looking to support AFC Bournemouth in its plans to build a new stadium. And where? On the council-owned athletics track and community sports facility nearby.

 

[Knutsfordian]

so when you talk about pooled admin resources - those are shared with other councils like cornwall, hampshire etc?

 

[toddyb]

Something I was told to-day about students loans can anyone confirm if it's true or false.The government sell on the debt to a private company who charge interest on it monthly.I thought the government at the time said the loan would be interest free?.

 

[Alan M]

so when you talk about pooled admin resources - those are shared with other councils like cornwall, hampshire etc?

i mean that my council tax in East Dorset is collected by a central facility consisting of Poole, East Dorset, Purbeck, North Dorset Councils, while my East Dorset council shares a central admin team with Christchurch and North Dorset. It is all rather complicated, with Poole and Bournemouth being unitary authorities administratively distinct from Dorset County Council, and the councils at District Council level having a degree of autonomy from the county, this being a rural area
That's the simple version.

 

[Alan M]

Something I was told to-day about students loans can anyone confirm if it's true or false.The government sell on the debt to a private company who charge interest on it monthly.I thought the government at the time said the loan would be interest free?.

Welcome to the world of public private partnerships!

 

[paul]

i mean that my council tax in East Dorset is collected by a central facility consisting of Poole, East Dorset, Purbeck, North Dorset Councils, while my East Dorset council shares a central admin team with Christchurch and North Dorset. It is all rather complicated, with Poole and Bournemouth being unitary authorities administratively distinct from Dorset County Council, and the councils at District Council level having a degree of autonomy from the county, this being a rural area
That's the simple version.

A bit like some parts of Northwich being in Weaver Vale and other parts of Northwich in Tatton. Seems a bit silly to me.

 

[toddyb]

Or welcome to the world of broken promises,if it is true it's a disgrace.

 

[Knutsfordian]

Student debt is charged at inflation plus (I think 3%) so currently about 6%. Its an absolute disgrace. Our young grads are being fleeced. Its the greatest scandal of our time.

Not quite Paul - that;s the constituency boundaries. Not the same as local authorities

The services that Alan refers to are I suspect a hash up of previous council functions where some councils have been amalgamated but the council that collected (say) council tax continues to do so.

What I am talking about is a service to collect taxes (as an example) for a number of counties or authorities so the costs are shared. I don't think this happens. So taking the police as an example all the local constabularies are self contained, rather than sharing costs and services.

 

[toddyb]

All said Knutsfordian it's still a broken promise.And to put the future of our children in the hands of debt collectors is a disgrace.

 

[James Wood]

Student debt is charged at inflation plus (I think 3%) so currently about 6%. Its an absolute disgrace. Our young grads are being fleeced. Its the greatest scandal of our time.

Not quite Paul - that;s the constituency boundaries. Not the same as local authorities

The services that Alan refers to are I suspect a hash up of previous council functions where some councils have been amalgamated but the council that collected (say) council tax continues to do so.

What I am talking about is a service to collect taxes (as an example) for a number of counties or authorities so the costs are shared. I don't think this happens. So taking the police as an example all the local constabularies are self contained, rather than sharing costs and services.

Knutsfordian - as ever you make some very reasonable suggestions and points. Having worked in both the public and private sectors in the last decade, I see this from 'both sides'

But we need to explode the myth that the public sector is all bad and efficient and the private sector all good and super-efficient. This is simply not the truth. Both can learn a great deal from one another. I've seen really good practices in both sectors.

However, where I would say the difference is that the private sector - by its very nature - can be more entrepreneurial and risk-taking whilst the public sector - very understandably - is more risk averse as it is taxpayers money that is at risk and they aren't expecting a dividend from their 'investment'.

As a result, the private sector can, for instance, plough a greater deal of cash into initiatives that will save the company money or provide a good pay-back from an investment. One of the frustrating things when I worked in the Public Sector was that there were many areas where we could have reduced costs by investing some cash but due to budgetary constraints this was not possible.

As far as cost cutting and joint working is concerned, the Local Government changes made in 2008/09 in Cheshire did result in huge savings by effectively reducing 7 councils (one county and 5 districts) to 2 (East and West Cheshire). Since then, both Councils have been subject to some hugely disproportionate cuts (I know this as I keep in touch with my former colleagues) compared to other parts of the public sector.

To sum up. In my experience there are great people doing great jobs in both sectors and in many areas the two work side by side to provide great products and services to us all. But Local Government in particular has been hit hardest by the 'austerity' regime despite it being the area upon which we rely for the delivery of the most of our key services.

 

[Alan M]

What I am talking about is a service to collect taxes (as an example) for a number of counties or authorities so the costs are shared. I don't think this happens. So taking the police as an example all the local constabularies are self contained, rather than sharing costs and services.

I think that one problem you might encounter with that is that you end up imposing an extra level of possibly unnecessary bureaucracy. Take one example I came across this week - we (the co I run) have been supplying interpreters and translations to the local prison health services for years, all invoiced to Dorset Healthcare locally. Now the invoicing function has been transferred to a national body - so we send the invoices to them, and then they send them to Dorset Healthcare who authorise payment and send them back to them for actual payment. That is to me an example of inefficiency in the backroom operations, they say it is rationalisation.
And imagine the shock I got when I was told this new overseeing authority was based in ... Northwich.

Down here local (council) taxes are collected centrally then distributed (as I said earlier). Dorset and Wiltshire police have joined up a lot of their backroom operations. And Dorset Fire Service is now Dorset & Wiltshire Fire Service. Those are two rural counties, so it probably makes sense. Hampshire is huge, and has places like Southampton & Portsmouth to cope with, so they stay alone - and Hampshire counts as south-east, meaning they get a higher level of funding than Dorset, as we count as south-west apparently. So joining up would be more complicated. Living 4 miles from Hampshire I don't see much difference!
Of course, before local govt reorganisation in the 70s Bournemouth was in Hampshire (and indeed Hampshire CCC still played regularly in Bournemouth until a few years ago).

Also local councils far too jealously guard their own independence and power, though there are moves to create a single unitary Bournemouth & Poole & Christchurch authority (which Christchurch vehemently oppose).

Sorry. I'll shut up about down here now.

 

[Kit]

It's interesting that many people believe that student fees/loans are a Conservative policy. They were brought in by labour at very short notice (I know because I was in the first cohort to pay them) and increased dramatically over labour's 13 years in government.
Ben, I was being slightly tongue in cheek about Corbyn. I would be genuinely interested to see what would happen under him. I do think May hit the nail on the head yesterday saying it's not actually fair to promise everything to everyone. It's not possible to do, and keep the country's finances balanced. Sadly, I think that has now set a precedent for General Elections in the future - promise it, whether it's deliverable or not.
Some people are fed up with this thread but there's some great posts on here from all sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Alan M]

It always amuses me when people go onto a thread and moan that the thread (still) exists, as if there were some unwritten law which says you have to read every thread. I still haven't looked at the one about Warrington RL. Maybe I should?

Elections have always been "promise the earth" occasions, going back 100s of years. The knack is in reading between the lines and seeing what is certain / probable / possible / impossible, but a lot of people only digest the headlines without doing the analysis. Then for the politicians it is a trade-off between gaining the 'naive' votes and losing the 'analytical' ones.

 

[Nicki]

It's interesting that many people believe that student fees/loans are a Conservative policy. They were brought in by labour at very short notice.

I bet you there are more people who (wrongly) believe it was Labour who bought in the 3-day week back in the 70s!

I guess these sorts of things happen because people repeat a lie (or mistruth) often enough that people begin to forget what really did happen. Social media has served to quicken the pace at which the truth gets lost.

 

[richard webb]

I bet you there are more people who (wrongly) believe it was Labour who bought in the 3-day week back in the 70s!

I guess these sorts of things happen because people repeat a lie (or mistruth) often enough that people begin to forget what really did happen. Social media has served to quicken the pace at which the truth gets lost.

Nikki, my memory is that the 3 day week was brought in because of the amount of strikes the unions were calling, pretty undemocratically (i.e. on a very small turnout) forcing the government of the day to do it. As I remember principally the miners under Joe Gormley. This was probably the reason the milk snatcher was so pig headed when King Arthur took his miners out, believing he could bring the government down - all he did was double-handedly bring down the mining industry in this country (double handed because he was every bit as pig headed as she was). At roughly the same time as Scargill the steel unions were also out for best part of a year but luckily the steel industry was not killed off then, probably the reason why no-one seems to remember that particular strike. Luckily for me I worked in a specialist area within BSC, notably steel fabrication and erection, where we did most of our work overseas and our union (Steel Industry management Association) did not take part in it anyway, but I know it cause tremendous hardship to large parts of the work force.