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Lockdowns

G Edge said:
The 65k+ people who have sadly passed away from Covid wish they could be part of any lockdown.
GE
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Tragic and sad indeed but more than 65,000 people who have died despite lockdowns being in place.
Make of that what you will.
 
Knutsfordian said:
Thank you James - good to see you acknowledge my status at last lol :) ;)
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We may be poles apart on many things, but when it comes to the best way of controlling this damned virus, I think that there is the thickness of a fag paper between us on this matter.

Ok. End of the love in. Let hostilities recommence.

Effin scummy, corrupt, self-serving bleeding Tory bastards ??
 
Ben said:
Tragic and sad indeed but more than 65,000 people who have died despite lockdowns being in place.
, innsigjfulMake of that what you will.
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And your Plan B is what?

Still waiting for this wonderful insightful solution that no one has yet thought of...
 
James Wood said:
For Christ’s sake Andy when will you accept that lockdowns do work? We saw that when the first one was introduced in March. The one in Leicester worked. The ones on Greater Manchester have worked (hence all the hoo-haa from Graham Brady wanting Trafford taken out of Tier 3). Liverpool was one of the areas with highest incidence of cases per 100,000 of population. Tough restrictions and they are now lower than many other urban areas.
I think that you are in denial about what the facts clearly demonstrate and what all the highly experienced and qualified experts - plus our old friend Knutsfordian- say about this matter. Limit contact between people and you restrict the spread of this virus. It really is as simple as that!
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“For Christ sake” James, when will you accept lockdowns don’t work?

Another lockdown on the way should tell you that I isn’t effective. Pointless unemployment and future excess deaths caused for no reason.

The point has always been that the collateral damage caused by lockdowns far outweigh any benefits of a lockdown. As you would say, “for Christ sake” James, how do you not get that by now?

Lockdowns are backed by seemingly short sighted people.
 
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Andy said:
“For Christ sake” James, when will you accept lockdowns don’t work?

Another lockdown on the way should tell you that I isn’t effective. Pointless unemployment and future excess deaths caused for no reason.

The point has always been that the collateral damage caused by lockdowns far outweigh any benefits of a lockdown. As you would say, “for Christ sake” James, how do you not get that by now?

Lockdowns are backed by seemingly short sighted people.
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Andy - if we accept what we are told at face value (and I appreciate this is sometimes difficult to do) then if we do nothing the hospitals will be over run and death rates will increase further. So what is it that we can do to prevent this happening? If everyone willingly self isolated, for an indefinite period, then the pandemic would pass. But they won't, so the virus continues to spread. It's not very often I agree with James O'Brien on LBC (as you can imagine), but he ran a session on this the other day and no real alternative came up. Our only hope to avoid another set of restrictions is to get 50million people vaccinated within a month. Not realistic is it?
 
James Wood said:
And your Plan B is what?

Still waiting for this wonderful insightful solution that no one has yet thought of...
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I think there should be more of an emphasis on personal responsibility and advice and letting people be their own judges of risk and take their own precautions, more like the kind of thing we’ve seen in Sweden. A lot more focus also on shielding the vulnerable while we wait for the vaccine to be rolled out which will then allow normality.

Accept it’s not going to happen and we’ll be in yet another lockdown very soon. Now there’s a new strain to contend with also!
 
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Some people clearly can't be trusted to do the right thing & that puts many more at risk.

If test & trace worked then you would know where people are catching the virus & take it from there - if it's supermarkets then impost restrictions on them to reduce the footfall etc.

We just keep ending up with the worst of both worlds. The virus isn't being contained & the economy is getting battered.
 
Edge said:
Some people clearly can't be trusted to do the right thing & that puts many more at risk.

If test & trace worked then you would know where people are catching the virus & take it from there - if it's supermarkets then impost restrictions on them to reduce the footfall etc.

We just keep ending up with the worst of both worlds. The virus isn't being contained & the economy is getting battered.
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with test and trace- I think the numbers of infections are too big - and people don't want to be tracked and traced
 
Ben said:
I think there should be more of an emphasis on personal responsibility and advice and letting people be their own judges of risk and take their own precautions, more like the kind of thing we’ve seen in Sweden. A lot more focus also on shielding the vulnerable while we wait for the vaccine to be rolled out which will then allow normality.

Accept it’s not going to happen and we’ll be in yet another lockdown very soon. Now there’s a new strain to contend with also!
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Ah yes, the Great British common sense. We saw that in spades over the summer when restrictions were lifted. And what happened then? Cases rose resulting in the autumn lockdown.

And as for Sweden, as I posted the other day, despite their ‘relaxed’ approach they have now had as many cases as other nations per 100k of population
 
Andy said:
“For Christ sake” James, when will you accept lockdowns don’t work?

Another lockdown on the way should tell you that I isn’t effective. Pointless unemployment and future excess deaths caused for no reason.

The point has always been that the collateral damage caused by lockdowns far outweigh any benefits of a lockdown. As you would say, “for Christ sake” James, how do you not get that by now?

Lockdowns are backed by seemingly short sighted people.
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Oh, so stopping people dying from this virus is ‘short sighted’? Guilty as charged then.

Have you ever seen the charts produced by the ONS re the correlation of cases, hospitalisations and deaths? They also declines following the start of lockdowns. And likewise they climb following their cessation. Just as they are doing now. The statistics don’t lie....
 
I see that the South East and London are going into a new Tier 4 set of restrictions, which effectively is the same as the national lockdown in November. It also bans them from seeing families on Christmas Day.

While all the rest of us in Tier 1 to 3 get Christmas Day and that’s it. Very poor of the government to cancel plans like this last minute. I can’t say I’m surprised though as it sums up the way they’ve dealt with the whole of this from the start!
 
James Wood said:
Oh, so stopping people dying from this virus is ‘short sighted’? Guilty as charged then.

Have you ever seen the charts produced by the ONS re the correlation of cases, hospitalisations and deaths? They also declines following the start of lockdowns. And likewise they climb following their cessation. Just as they are doing now. The statistics don’t lie....
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What about the hundereds of thousands of lives that lockdown will take long term? Do the not matter?
 
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Andy said:
What about the hundereds of thousands of lives that lockdown will take long term? Do the not matter?
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Indeed they do Andy. I have never suggested otherwise. My point is that you have consistently said that lockdowns don’t work. I have consistently said when it comes to reducing the number of cases, hospital admissions and deaths, that all the evidence proves that they do.
 
James, you don’t need to reply “but the daily Mail” every time you see an article from there.

We get it. You don’t like it ?

Maybe focus on the study from Professor Philip Thomas from Bristol University, rather than the logo on the corner of the screen.
 
Ben said:
I see that the South East and London are going into a new Tier 4 set of restrictions, which effectively is the same as the national lockdown in November. It also bans them from seeing families on Christmas Day.

While all the rest of us in Tier 1 to 3 get Christmas Day and that’s it. Very poor of the government to cancel plans like this last minute. I can’t say I’m surprised though as it sums up the way they’ve dealt with the whole of this from the start!
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It's very easy to say it's all the government's fault and they are incompetent, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story or a bashing to be dished out to the messenger eh?

Over the weekend a number of scientists have come forwards to say that they have been working on identifying mutant forms of Covid for some months - and there in fact many hundreds if not thousands of mutations. It really was at the end of the last week when the scientists stepped up with the evidence to say "you really really can't ignore this form of the disease" and press the government for something to be done. Look at it logically - Would Boris have stood in the Commons last Wednesday, saying what he did and knowing that this story was about to break? You might think the man to be shortsighted, but people at that level of government are rarely as inept as we would like to believe. It would never have happened.

It is likely that this variant is also widely spread across Europe, but has only now been identified in the UK. That apparently is because we do about 50% of the world study into gnome (?), so very few other countries have the technical know how to do the work. This new variant has already been identified on the European mainland, so cutting off the UK isn't going to restrict the spread

The other compelling science is that this virus spreads via human contact. Avoid contact with other people and you stop the spread. Because people insist on partying together, shopping together etc etc, means that lockdowns are inevitable. None of us like them, none of us want them but until we learn to live differently or get vaccinated its where we are.

The government is clearly hoping that the AstraZeneca vaccine will hit the market any day. I suspect when it does the advice on who gets it will change with schools and geography added to the mix. They have 100 million doses of that vaccine that's enough for 50million peeps, so I suspect teams of army medics ploughing through schools and universities in tier4 areas will be high on the agenda
 
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