General Election 2017

[Frank Fallows]

Alan,

Didn't we have enough of your pro EU propoganda prior to Brest please give it a rest .

 

[Nicki]

Brexiters when the result was announced: "At last, we finally have a voice"

Brexiters in response to remainers - who have a will to fight for and defend what they believe in "Deal with it", "jog on", "get over it", give it a rest"...

... doing nothing but shouting them down and wanting to deny them a voice.

Hypocrisy beyond belief.

 

[Knutsfordian]

I though you lot would be voting Green party ! Another daft choice

 

[Alan M]

Alan,

Didn't we have enough of your pro EU propoganda prior to Brest please give it a rest .

Evidence on this thread??????

In a democracy we all have a right to our own opinion, but if you wish to silence me then at least give me some justification based on the facts. In the meantime, I will continue to express my opinion and not be told how to think, act or vote by anyone else.

 

[paul]

Brexiters when the result was announced: "At last, we finally have a voice"

Brexiters in response to remainers - who have a will to fight for and defend what they believe in "Deal with it", "jog on", "get over it", give it a rest"...

... doing nothing but shouting them down and wanting to deny them a voice.

Hypocrisy beyond belief.

Remainers when the result was announced: "Racists" "Uneducated" "Northern Pensioners" etc etc. No such words directed at people not wanting to be in The European Union pre June last year.

Hypocrisy beyond belief.

 

[Nicki]

It would be wholly wrong to suggest that all the uneducated (pretty horrible term - but was yours not mine) and all Northern pensioners voted for Brexit but it would be true to say that the majority of the uneducated (still a horrible term) and the majority of Northern pensioners voted for Brexit. There is data.

Strangely enough there's little data about racists.

So, anyone who may have had those beliefs was actually correct.

I don't know - is that hypocrisy?

 

[paul]

It would be wholly wrong to suggest that all the uneducated (pretty horrible term - but was yours not mine) and all Northern pensioners voted for Brexit but it would be true to say that the majority of the uneducated (still a horrible term) and the majority of Northern pensioners voted for Brexit. There is data.

Strangely enough there's little data about racists.

So, anyone who may have had those beliefs was actually correct.

I don't know - is that hypocrisy?

Nicki unfortunately for you we live in a democracy - which bit of that do you not understand?

 

[Nicki]

Which bit of anything I've said makes you think I don't understand that we live in a democracy?

Why is it unfortunate for me?

Strange post.

 

[Andy]

Problem with these polls about what age range voted for what aren't particularly accurate. People often lie when asked by a stranger how they voted.

For example, I'd be put in a younger bracket, I know that between 50-60% of people I know at a similar age voted to leave. Now the news will tell you a very different story.

Same with the General Election, of all the problem I know personally I'm a similar age bracket to me, I can think of only 2 people who will vote Labour. But again, the news' opinion polls will tell you lots and lots of young people voted Labour. It's simply not true.

That's the problem with Polls, labour always poll 3/4% higher than they actually achieve on Election Day, they're in for a big shock come the 9th.

 

[Alan M]

True, but the problem with using personal experience to make similar deductions is that we all tend to associate more with "like-minded" people, and therefore our own perception of general attitudes to major issues is reflected by our circle of friends and acquaintances. This phenomenon goes way back to the days before access to any forms of mass or social media but has been exacerbated by the rise of the likes of facebook and twitter etc, with people increasingly taking their news and views from posts on such outlets - and of course the ones that they read are the ones posted by friends and acquaintances and they are likely to be people who broadly share their own views, so it all helps to reinforce the impression that a stated view is the majority view (or indeed that a piece of news is unquestionably true, which of course it possibly isn't, hence the rise in the prevalence of "fake news" items).
Not sure what anyone can do about this though, other than try to educate people to read things with a critical eye.

 

[Frank Fallows]

Can we also get facts in regard to the "alleged" EU membership, the UK voters have NEVER voted to be a member of such , we "oldies" were asked to vote for membership of a "Common Market" many years which was then involved 6 or 7 other European countries, nothing else !!.
The current situation is an attempt to have a "United States of Europe" by devious politicians that would enable them to have an even larger trough to get their snouts in, and as is currently controlled by Germany and France, the UK is the second largest contributer of funds, Germany being first. I hear with some annoyance the term of "European money" being lost, IT IS OUR OWN MONEY being returned in part.
Then claim made by "remainers" that we "oldies" have destroyed the future of the younger generation, Project fear again no doubt !!.

 

[Nicki]

I guess we (me included) would probably all do well to stop generalising with the terms Brexiters and Remainers.

The only thing that all Brexiters have in common is that they voted leave.
The only thing that all remainers have in common is that they voted remain.

That is beyond doubt - any other assumptions about any one individual are down to the laws of statistics.

 

[Frank Fallows]

Agreed, what we decide is our own choice.

 

[Andy]

True, but the problem with using personal experience to make similar deductions is that we all tend to associate more with "like-minded" people, and therefore our own perception of general attitudes to major issues is reflected by our circle of friends and acquaintances. This phenomenon goes way back to the days before access to any forms of mass or social media but has been exacerbated by the rise of the likes of facebook and twitter etc, with people increasingly taking their news and views from posts on such outlets - and of course the ones that they read are the ones posted by friends and acquaintances and they are likely to be people who broadly share their own views, so it all helps to reinforce the impression that a stated view is the majority view (or indeed that a piece of news is unquestionably true, which of course it possibly isn't, hence the rise in the prevalence of "fake news" items).
Not sure what anyone can do about this though, other than try to educate people to read things with a critical eye.

It's a fair shout about the circles, but take a look at the poll on this forum, students to the retired have all voted on it, and it doesn't look too good for Labour.

But the facts are, In opinion Polls the Tories always poll lower than what they get and Labour always poll higher than what they get on Election Day.

That's undeniable. People would rather tell a stranger that stops them in the street that they're voting Labour over Tory.

 

[Andy]

This is interesting.

Below are the results from the recent Kenton East Election.



And below are the way Harrow voted on the EU referendum. Very much a remain area.



What's so interesting is this:

- Even in such a pro remain seat, the tories pulled over 50% of the votes.

- And most interestingly, despite all of Dim Tim Farrons anti Brexit rhetoric, the Lib Dems could still only muster 2.1% of the vote in such a pro remain area...

 

[Nicki]

There are other more robust ways of compiling the Brexit data which can and have been used - based on how people DID vote and not on how they said they voted.

That said and back to the general election - to be honest I'll be shocked if anybody is shocked by the result. (Not wishing to sound all feminist) I wouldn't bother voting in this one but for the fact I feel I have a moral obligation to use my right to vote which others fought for! It won't make the slightest bit of difference down here but I'd hate to say I didn't at least try!

 

[Ben]

I will be voting for the Lib Dems as they are the only party standing up for the remain voters with their strong pro-EU voice. I am a natural Labour voter but I cannot vote for a party so hopelessly unelectable with a shockingly inept leader in Corbyn. He has also failed to stand up for the interests of the 48% who voted remain, preferring to side with May on not having another referendum on the terms of the Brexit deal.

In essence, he is given a free reign to May and the Tories to carry out the "hard Brexit" (on WTO terms?) they crave which I fear will damage our economy, jobs and businesses. It is the Lib Dems who will defend our membership of the EU, who want single market access and who will offer another referendum on the terms of the deal. They will get my vote.

As for lifelong Labour voters voting for the Tories, I just don't get it. Why vote for a party that has utter contempt for the poorest and most vulnerable and for the rights of working people? Take the Bedroom Tax, crushing the rights of unions, zero-hours contracts, Universal Credit, decimation of social housing, and cuts to tax credits and grammar schools.. they don't give a damn. Why not vote for a party with similar left-wing views - the Greens, SNP, Plaid etc... but not Tory? I personally would never vote Tory and all I crave is a strong and effective Labour party that can hold this cruel government to account. At the moment we're not getting that and millions of people who need Labour are being let down. I would hate to see a landslide Tory win but if it is, then maybe it will make Corbyn see sense and resign.

 

[Alan M]

Can we also get facts in regard to the "alleged" EU membership, the UK voters have NEVER voted to be a member of such , we "oldies" were asked to vote for membership of a "Common Market" many years which was then involved 6 or 7 other European countries, nothing else !!.
The current situation is an attempt to have a "United States of Europe" by devious politicians that would enable them to have an even larger trough to get their snouts in, and as is currently controlled by Germany and France, the UK is the second largest contributer of funds, Germany being first. I hear with some annoyance the term of "European money" being lost, IT IS OUR OWN MONEY being returned in part.
Then claim made by "remainers" that we "oldies" have destroyed the future of the younger generation, Project fear again no doubt !!.

Now that, Frank, is the perfect example of someone dragging Brexit into the thread about the election ... something that someone on here accused me of doing

That in/out decision has been made, this is a general election where there are much wider issues at stake

 

[Frank Fallows]

Ok Alan, let's call it a draw. we both have our own vews on the matter, perhaps it is the age difference !!.
.

 

[Alan M]

Flattered to be thought of as a youngster.