BREXIT THE MOVIE
- Thread starter Tony1874
- Start date
- Dec 11, 2015
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To be fair the vote was not about voting for the leaders of the Brexit campaign to run the country or the leaders of the remain campaign to run the country, we already have a general election for that. Did anyone think that Boris, Andrea and Farage were going to form a new party and a new government?
The vote was about leaving or remaining in the EU only.
As much as I don't like Farage or certain elements of UKIP, he has always send that he only went into politics to get the UK out of the EU. He has no purpose now and so he was right to go and hopefully UKIP will now fade into obscurity.
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The whole referendum campaign was a disappointment and bordering on embarrassing.
What should have been a sensible debate was dominated by scaremongering on one side and lies and deceipt on the other. Politicians have treated the electorate like fools for years and with the current political climate over the last few years I feel many people treated it like a protest vote which doesn't say much about the electorate either!
What should have been a sensible debate was dominated by scaremongering on one side and lies and deceipt on the other. Politicians have treated the electorate like fools for years and with the current political climate over the last few years I feel many people treated it like a protest vote which doesn't say much about the electorate either!
- Jul 28, 2013
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If you want UKIP to fade into the past, you better think again.
With a bit of work, that party could really challenge Labour, especially in Northern England. If labour go in to the next election with Corbyn, and UKIP could cause damage, collateral damage to Labour.
With a bit of work, that party could really challenge Labour, especially in Northern England. If labour go in to the next election with Corbyn, and UKIP could cause damage, collateral damage to Labour.
- Dec 11, 2015
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I don't think 52% of the country voted to leave the EU as a protest.
Most people that I have spoken to voted leave for democracy and accountability. It is funny that in one debate a claim was made that 75% of laws in the country come from the EU. The response from the remain campaign was that it was only 14% as if that made it ok. Most people I have spoken to about why they vote leave would prefer it was 0%. In fact a recent study said 13.2% of all laws made in the UK between 1993 and 2014 have been EU-related.
I suspect that there are many who voted leave based on EU immigration. Personally, I don't think this is an issue but many people have been concerned and feel they have not had a voice. For years the major parties have avoided the issue and accused anyone of mentioning it of being a racist. Far right parties have taken advantage of this and hence the rise of UKIP and BNP.
Most people that I have spoken to voted leave for democracy and accountability. It is funny that in one debate a claim was made that 75% of laws in the country come from the EU. The response from the remain campaign was that it was only 14% as if that made it ok. Most people I have spoken to about why they vote leave would prefer it was 0%. In fact a recent study said 13.2% of all laws made in the UK between 1993 and 2014 have been EU-related.
I suspect that there are many who voted leave based on EU immigration. Personally, I don't think this is an issue but many people have been concerned and feel they have not had a voice. For years the major parties have avoided the issue and accused anyone of mentioning it of being a racist. Far right parties have taken advantage of this and hence the rise of UKIP and BNP.
Who''s stupid enough to claim 52% did?
- Dec 11, 2015
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Not me that's for sure.
- Dec 11, 2015
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Elizabeth Hurley said:
- Dec 11, 2015
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If anyone is in need of anger management, it is the bitter loses who are objecting violently to the result of a democratic vote. I am not sure how many of them have privileged backgrounds or can afford it but I don't care because I don't hate people because of their class, wealth, race, religion......live and let live!
I personally find the actions of the party's MP's undemocratic in trying to oust a leader who has been democratically elected by members of the Labour Party. The party's membership of 600,000, an increase of 100,000 since the referendum result, makes it the biggest grassroots party in the country. That is the democratic mandate Corbyn has and the type of movement he is trying to create. If these MP's aren't happy with it, then maybe they should form an SDP-type party or join with the Liberals. Or they may want to accept Corbyn is the leader and fight the Tories rather than their own party. So to compare Corbyn to an Eastern bloc leader is totally unfair.
Yes, you're that right Labour have lost their appeal to the working classes in the North, who are concerned about immigration, who voted to leave the EU in huge numbers and many of whom have been left behind by globalisation and de-industrialisation under Thatcher and this government's austerity. I don't believe though that a group of Blairite MP's are in touch with the very same people who have deserted the Labour party in their millions since 2001. So on this evidence, it is totally unfair to compare Corbyn to some eastern Block leader.
At least Corbyn showed some encouraging signs of reaching out to these people on PMQ's last week. He made reference to the "left behind" in Labour's traditional heartlands. He spoke about migrant workers undercutting wages and zero-hours contracts and low paid work replacing decent, well-paid unionised jobs at a former mining colliery. He certainly seemed more in touch than Cameron who continually ploughed on about the economy and how it was stronger and how there are more jobs, missing the fact that despite this people voted Brexit because they're not feeling the benefits of the so-called "recovery".
As for Corbyn being friends with Hamas, not bowing down to the Queen, being some form of threat to our security with his opposition to Trident, or being in some way a far- left Communist, this is exactly the type of caricature the right-wing press want to make of him. The word Socialism would seem to be a dirty word to Blairites and many Tories.And Corbyn may be privately-educated but then so are Cameron, Johnson and their chums.
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- Jun 24, 2013
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Briefly: none of my current work interests or my marital status explains my reason for voting Remain, which was primarily because I believe that in a shrinking globalised world we cannot afford to turn our backs on those closest to us. The many other reasons I'll spare you.
Introducing the comment about 52% not voting Leave as a protest, and indeed introducing the comment berating people for moaning about Corbyn not bowing to the Queen, are both illustrations of introducing something into the argument on here that has not been said - both examples of a certain political deviousness which I wish could be banished (but it never will be).
None of us knows the many many reasons why all those people voted in or out - on both sides there were people of conviction, and on both sides there were probably also people who voted without fully understanding all the intricacies, just as some voted out because they wanted immigration controls, some because they wanted control over all law-making, some because they longed for the good old days when Britain was Great, etc etc etc. Our problem now as a country is that the 52% voted against something, but nobody has much idea what the "for something" which replaces it should look like. That is going to be a challenge for whoever gets put in charge of the Ministry of Brexit in the coming days.
As for Corbyn's position, it's a difficult one to solve, and Labour will probably suffer whichever way it goes. If he stays and wins, he is fulfilling the democratic wish of the party membership but has no basis of support in Parliament - the MPs have burnt their bridges on that - and we do live in a Parliamentary democracy. I am also convinced that his appeal does not go far beyond the core party membership - certainly not into the infamous middle ground where election battles are won and lost. With him, Labour will remain a party of protest, but never a party of power. If he is defeated, there will be an outcry from the membership leading to the deselection of many MPs at the next election. This is of course their right, but in electoral terms that will be akin to a suicide note. They have to remember that while they select candidates, once elected they are MPs and have to seek to represent the views of all their constituents (Parliamentary democracy again). Personally, I think his time is up, as he is not being effective as an opposition leader or in enthusing enough of the central ground to make Labour electable - these are surely the two central planks of his job description.
Terry Pratchett was right:
“You could say to the universe this is not fair. And the universe would say: Oh, isn’t it? Sorry.”
(Interesting Times) - and we do indeed live in them.
Introducing the comment about 52% not voting Leave as a protest, and indeed introducing the comment berating people for moaning about Corbyn not bowing to the Queen, are both illustrations of introducing something into the argument on here that has not been said - both examples of a certain political deviousness which I wish could be banished (but it never will be).
None of us knows the many many reasons why all those people voted in or out - on both sides there were people of conviction, and on both sides there were probably also people who voted without fully understanding all the intricacies, just as some voted out because they wanted immigration controls, some because they wanted control over all law-making, some because they longed for the good old days when Britain was Great, etc etc etc. Our problem now as a country is that the 52% voted against something, but nobody has much idea what the "for something" which replaces it should look like. That is going to be a challenge for whoever gets put in charge of the Ministry of Brexit in the coming days.
As for Corbyn's position, it's a difficult one to solve, and Labour will probably suffer whichever way it goes. If he stays and wins, he is fulfilling the democratic wish of the party membership but has no basis of support in Parliament - the MPs have burnt their bridges on that - and we do live in a Parliamentary democracy. I am also convinced that his appeal does not go far beyond the core party membership - certainly not into the infamous middle ground where election battles are won and lost. With him, Labour will remain a party of protest, but never a party of power. If he is defeated, there will be an outcry from the membership leading to the deselection of many MPs at the next election. This is of course their right, but in electoral terms that will be akin to a suicide note. They have to remember that while they select candidates, once elected they are MPs and have to seek to represent the views of all their constituents (Parliamentary democracy again). Personally, I think his time is up, as he is not being effective as an opposition leader or in enthusing enough of the central ground to make Labour electable - these are surely the two central planks of his job description.
Terry Pratchett was right:
“You could say to the universe this is not fair. And the universe would say: Oh, isn’t it? Sorry.”
(Interesting Times) - and we do indeed live in them.
- May 21, 2014
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Alan in a "shrinking globalised world" why would you want to stay closest to those in a continent with one of the slowest economic growth figures in the world ie the EU, with absolutely no say in their decisions but still having to abide by their undemocratic rules and decisions? To me that is absolutely bonkers. Following the fair, democratic vote we will be free to trade with the rest of the world, make our own decisions, have control of our country back in our hands and we will without doubt prosper from that. Still all doom and gloom from those that wanted to remain though, nothing really positive during the campaign and even less afterwards!
Why? Well because they're our closest neighbours and our biggest trading partners, accounting for almost half of all our exports and three million jobs. I don't understand why Britain would want to turn its back on this. You talk about undemocratic rules and decisions, yet as a member of the EU, we have a say in shaping those rules and decisions like the 27 other countries. This will no longer be the case once we exit and say remain a member of the single market like Norway or Switzerland, but with no say, having to pay in and having to accept free movement of people.
As for trading with the rest of the world. The answer to this question is we already do this. It was perfectly possible for Britain to be an EU member, trade with other EU countries and with the likes of China, America and India. I don't understand this logic of it's one or another. We do both. There's no doom and gloom from me, I voted Remain for positive reasons as I believe in a Britain big and strong in the world working with its EU neighbours and other countries outside the EU in as Alan rightly points out, in a "shrinking globalised world." Rather than it being the Remain campaign who talked down Britain and its place in the world, I believe it was those who advocated Leave.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Not asking anyone to change their opinion - if they have an opinion then they should stick to it. I'm all for people being opinionated. 
But I have mine and will also stick to it. I think Ben has already given my answer to most of the points raised, though. I will reserve my opinion on how much freedom and prosperity we will now enjoy until the negotiating positions are clear. My point is simply that there is nothing I have yet seen that would convince me of a rosy future.
But I have mine and will also stick to it. I think Ben has already given my answer to most of the points raised, though. I will reserve my opinion on how much freedom and prosperity we will now enjoy until the negotiating positions are clear. My point is simply that there is nothing I have yet seen that would convince me of a rosy future.