General Election 2017
- Thread starter Andy
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- Jul 28, 2013
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- #482
Theresa May has hadn't a rough few days, and if she carries on like this the unthinkable could happen... a Labour win!!
And the worst thing about a Labour win? Worse than the economic collapse, worse than the threat to national security and worse than the Brexit backslide....
No, the worst thing would be that a Labour government would have a small Majority, where there majority of its MPs are against its leader and policies. The government would fall apart in months meaning, that once again, we could be asked to vote yet again.
And we can all agree, none of use want to have to go and vote again, can't we?!
And the worst thing about a Labour win? Worse than the economic collapse, worse than the threat to national security and worse than the Brexit backslide....
No, the worst thing would be that a Labour government would have a small Majority, where there majority of its MPs are against its leader and policies. The government would fall apart in months meaning, that once again, we could be asked to vote yet again.
And we can all agree, none of use want to have to go and vote again, can't we?!
- Jun 24, 2013
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So it's ok for May to turn round two years after an election and say "let's have another election because I want a bigger majority so that I can sideline the MPs in my party who are threatening to derail my policy agenda" but it wouldn't be ok for any other party to do the same?? 
Showing my age here but when that happened to Harold Wilson he went back to the country after a couple of years and got a majority of 100.
Meanwhile my daughter has just popped round and insisted on showing me this
http://www.reasonstovotetory.uk/
Showing my age here but when that happened to Harold Wilson he went back to the country after a couple of years and got a majority of 100.
Meanwhile my daughter has just popped round and insisted on showing me this
http://www.reasonstovotetory.uk/
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #484
Well, that just isn't what I said, is it?
A Corbyn led government would be unstable. The party almost tore itself apart last summer, just imagine what it would do in government when they actually had power!
First government to have a vote of no confidence passed through the commons?
- Jun 24, 2013
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It's fair to say that May's had an absolute stinker these last few days (since the release of her own manifesto, which I'm pretty certain wasn't quite what she was hoping for) however, you've got to hand it to her and the other leaders. They must be knackered! May looked it today.
Neither she nor Jezza, in particular, are exactly spring chickens and she's a Type 1 diabetic (not something to be wished on your worst enemy). That's some staying power they've got and there are still a couple of weeks to go.
Neither she nor Jezza, in particular, are exactly spring chickens and she's a Type 1 diabetic (not something to be wished on your worst enemy). That's some staying power they've got and there are still a couple of weeks to go.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Going to have to check forum rules...
I'm pretty certain that there's a global forum rule which warns about using the Daily Mail as a source - under any circumstance, and I think there was a recent UK-specific rule update about use of the words 'strong' or 'stable' or any derivative thereof in any thread of a political nature.
It's a good job we're lenient round here!!
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #487
Going to have to check forum rules...
I'm pretty certain that there's a global forum rule which warns about using the Daily Mail as a source - under any circumstance, and I think there was a recent UK-specific rule update about use of the words 'strong' or 'stable' or any derivative thereof in any thread of a political nature.
It's a good job we're lenient round here!!
No Daily Mail sources used, I'm basing that prediction on how the Labour party has been since the 2015 General Election.
My biggest gripe with the Labour Party, is how it's trying to manipulate the younger generation - my generation. They know full well they can't afford all these free things, so it seems to me they're just saying it to get their vote. We know younger people don't vote - and if Labour do win, and it turns out that they are blatantly lying to the young people, I sincerely hope that they never forget.
It's just my personal opinion, but a Labour victory at this election, could really do more damage to the Labour party than even a thumping loss would.
- Jun 24, 2013
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That final sentence has an element of truth about it, but unfortunately I fear a Conservative victory will do untold damage to the country as a whole. So, the dilemma is - damage the Labour Party or damage the country? Or vote Lib Dem?
All of course totally futile questions down here in one of the safest Con seats in the country.
All of course totally futile questions down here in one of the safest Con seats in the country.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #489
A Tory win has a number of outcomes:
- Successful Brexit = Strong Conservative Party
- Bad Brexit = Conservative Party in Turmoil
- Brexit U-Turn = UKIP returns, with Farage back at the helm - and then they'll be a power in Westminster.
A Labour Victory possible outcomes:
- Backlash from those they are lying to regarding all this free stuff = end of the Labour Party
- If they're not lying, backlash from everyone else when the countries plunged in to economic turmoil = end of the Labour Party
- Endless in fighting between the Blairites and Corbyn's Marxists, leading to a government that rips itself apart and is dissolved within 12 months = Labour in turmoil, but maybe salvageable.
It sounds weird, but as an outsider to the Labour party, maybe a Labour defeat is whats best for them?
Labour is a party that is made up of the far left, to the centre ground, its that diversity that could tare them apart.
- Jun 24, 2013
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That's a lot of ifs. (Referring to Andy's post - I can't be bothered to put a quote in.)
Even if Labour does get in, even if it does let the younger generation down (I don't see why that should happen*) they'll all morph into Tory voters anyway whether they forget or not! It's part of the ageing process as far as I can tell.
*My generation will be paying for all their free things through taxes. I've no problem with that as I was fortunate enough to get through university before tuition fees were introduced.
Whilst the contest is at least now getting interesting, I still can't see anything other than a Tory win (I might change that view in a week or so), but even the most ardent Tory supporter has to be a little worried at how momentum at least has shifted. Complacency? Taking their eye off the (non-Brexit) day-to-day issues? Too little thought gone into the manifesto? Too many meaningless sound-bites? Too much avoiding of the public? Too much Boris Johnson? They're being out-campaigned at the moment, that's for sure, but Brexit will win them the day.
Even if Labour does get in, even if it does let the younger generation down (I don't see why that should happen*) they'll all morph into Tory voters anyway whether they forget or not! It's part of the ageing process as far as I can tell.
*My generation will be paying for all their free things through taxes. I've no problem with that as I was fortunate enough to get through university before tuition fees were introduced.
Whilst the contest is at least now getting interesting, I still can't see anything other than a Tory win (I might change that view in a week or so), but even the most ardent Tory supporter has to be a little worried at how momentum at least has shifted. Complacency? Taking their eye off the (non-Brexit) day-to-day issues? Too little thought gone into the manifesto? Too many meaningless sound-bites? Too much avoiding of the public? Too much Boris Johnson? They're being out-campaigned at the moment, that's for sure, but Brexit will win them the day.
- Jun 24, 2013
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I'm pretty certain that being lied to by political parties doesn't result in much of a backlash!! If it did, then Labour would be home and dry for this election!!
Regarding the Labour Party and what's best for them... I didn't realise you cared!!
Regarding the Labour Party and what's best for them... I didn't realise you cared!!
- Jun 24, 2013
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Any Boris Johnson is too much!! You've missed his TV appearance from yesterday morning off that list. If you haven't seen it, you should go and find it, it's a cracker!
We (all) can only hope that he won't continue in his post after the election. It was a good joke by TM to make him Foreign Secretary but that joke's run its course!!
We (all) can only hope that he won't continue in his post after the election. It was a good joke by TM to make him Foreign Secretary but that joke's run its course!!
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #494
On to tuition fees.
Free tuition isn't the answer these days. When they were last free, very few people went, so obviously, the majority of those with degrees did very well for themselves.
Now however, around 50% of people go to university, and in all honesty, it's no good. Tuition Fees don't seem to have stopped anyone going.
I know really intelligent people go to university, and then struggle to use that degree afterwards.
I'll agree with that. When I left school, the majority I know went down 1 of 2 paths.
1 path, was in Apprenticships. And 9/10 of those tend to lean towards the Tories. Multiple reasons for that.
The other path, was those that continued full time education at university. In 2015, many of those did indeed side with Labour. However, having spent a year out of university, a good 50% have started to consider the conservatives as a more valid option.
And as for Boris. He's on his way to the back benches. But Boris being Boris, you'll know doubt see him back in front Time politics again soon.
He is marmite. But any Conservative that can win back to back Mayoral elections in Labour London, certainly has something going for him.
Free tuition isn't the answer these days. When they were last free, very few people went, so obviously, the majority of those with degrees did very well for themselves.
Now however, around 50% of people go to university, and in all honesty, it's no good. Tuition Fees don't seem to have stopped anyone going.
I know really intelligent people go to university, and then struggle to use that degree afterwards.
I'll agree with that. When I left school, the majority I know went down 1 of 2 paths.
1 path, was in Apprenticships. And 9/10 of those tend to lean towards the Tories. Multiple reasons for that.
The other path, was those that continued full time education at university. In 2015, many of those did indeed side with Labour. However, having spent a year out of university, a good 50% have started to consider the conservatives as a more valid option.
And as for Boris. He's on his way to the back benches. But Boris being Boris, you'll know doubt see him back in front Time politics again soon.
He is marmite. But any Conservative that can win back to back Mayoral elections in Labour London, certainly has something going for him.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #495
Sure the Lib Dems wished that was the case in 2015!!
Believe it or not, I do wish to see a stronger more reasonable Labour Party. The country needs it. A strong opposition is always needed.
Corbyns Labour hasn't only led to a Labour Party that Labour voters are particularly happy with, but it's left the Conservatives in a position where they're trying to get those voters left behind by Labour, whilst in the mean time making a manefesto that doesn't really do much to excite Conservatives.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Just caught up with May's grilling by Andrew Neill. She squirmed and looked uncomfortable that he wouldn't take no answer for an answer, but managed not to get too flustered. Still don't know how she can possibly say "no social care cap" is the same as "a social care cap". I liked the comment about this being the first time a party has managed to break a manifesto promise before getting into power. Still not convinced by her mantra that everything will be paid for by the "strong economy" she seems convinced she is creating. I'd give her performance 6 out of 10. And she looked gaunt.
- Jun 24, 2013
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There is good reason why some people are struggling to use their degrees! Poor choice!
Do a science, engineering or IT degree, do it well (i.e., turn up to lectures, revise, and don't just assume that the country owes you a living) and you'll walk into a job. The country is crying out for these graduates, unfortunately, we don't have enough so have to look elsewhere... Europe for example... Just one reason why arbitrary immigration targets that May produces are certain to be missed... again.
Do a science, engineering or IT degree, do it well (i.e., turn up to lectures, revise, and don't just assume that the country owes you a living) and you'll walk into a job. The country is crying out for these graduates, unfortunately, we don't have enough so have to look elsewhere... Europe for example... Just one reason why arbitrary immigration targets that May produces are certain to be missed... again.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #498
I agree about choice of degree.
But university isn't the be all and end all, even in many of the areas you stated.
I work in engineering. I've seen how much work the Conservatives have done promoting that area to young people, I've seen how much they've put in to Apprenticeships in engineering and manufacturing.
They've set up the Apprentice Levy, where big corporations and companies pay in 1% of there salary budget in to a pot. From this pot they can draw funds to train new people and people already employed by them. And don't be fooled by its name, people can use this to part time get their Masters degrees.
but from this pot, small businesses that don't pay into it can still draw money from it to train their own.
This is something that can create many jobs, and help many many people become high skilled workers.
That to me, seems more beneficial than everyone going to Uni and getting a bum degree.
Labour seem to want a very one dimensional education system. That worries me.
Stephen Wolfe MEP (ex UKIP, now IND) had education spot on on Question Time last year when he was still with UKIP. I'll try and find a video of it tomorrow.
But university isn't the be all and end all, even in many of the areas you stated.
I work in engineering. I've seen how much work the Conservatives have done promoting that area to young people, I've seen how much they've put in to Apprenticeships in engineering and manufacturing.
They've set up the Apprentice Levy, where big corporations and companies pay in 1% of there salary budget in to a pot. From this pot they can draw funds to train new people and people already employed by them. And don't be fooled by its name, people can use this to part time get their Masters degrees.
but from this pot, small businesses that don't pay into it can still draw money from it to train their own.
This is something that can create many jobs, and help many many people become high skilled workers.
That to me, seems more beneficial than everyone going to Uni and getting a bum degree.
Labour seem to want a very one dimensional education system. That worries me.
Stephen Wolfe MEP (ex UKIP, now IND) had education spot on on Question Time last year when he was still with UKIP. I'll try and find a video of it tomorrow.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Yep - apprenticeships are definitely a way forward. I couldn't agree more!
It's not necessarily the case though that any (good) initiatives that exist today will get binned by Labour; especially ones that involve relatively little government investment. Time will tell how successful the Apprentice Levy will be but anything that promotes useful training has to be a good thing.
Too many people put themselves into too much debt thinking that a university degree is the be all and end all.
It's not necessarily the case though that any (good) initiatives that exist today will get binned by Labour; especially ones that involve relatively little government investment. Time will tell how successful the Apprentice Levy will be but anything that promotes useful training has to be a good thing.
Too many people put themselves into too much debt thinking that a university degree is the be all and end all.