Trafford 0-4

[Greenman91]

“Change is inevitable and especially in football…”

Change can also be massively disruptive, and expensive, particularly if not handled well. And football certainly isn’t an industry that ought to be held up as a shining beacon as how organisations and companies should be managed - indeed, I’d argue that the reverse is true.

The better companies are those that have a high degree of stability but retain the ability to continuously improve and innovate by means of evolution as opposed to revolution.

And that’s true when it comes to football. Arsenal under Wenger and now Arteta, United under Ferguson, Liverpool under Klopp, Crewe under Gradi, Harrogate under Weaver, City under Pep, Burnley under Dyche.

Contrast this with Chelski, United since Ferguson, Everton and literally dozens of other clubs who hire and fire managers seemingly with the changes of the seasons

James, unfortunately as pointed out this position had been coming for the last 18 months to 2 years, I saw it coming under Gobo as did others. While I understand your point about stability, I’m not sure sticking with them for stability would have had us much better off than we are now. Performance levels since macc away had been awful under Paul and Wayne. Ok we scraped a result here and there, but it was a god awful watch with very little to cheer about. After a very good first half of last season, we managed to stay up by the skin of our teeth, that’s the point Paul and Wayne should have departed whether asked to leave or left of their own free will. We’d had stability for years under them, but they just didn’t have what it took to recruit at this level, the signs were there 2 summers ago and then last summer slammed that home for those who couldn’t see the poor state of the squad already. Sure we lost key player, but it’s the managements job and responsibility to replace those players and they didn’t. As far as I’m concerned and this is my opinion, the board failed to act and gave Paul and Wayne far too much respect and time and if the club falls into the midlands league, that’s on the board (prior to this years AGM) The players need to stand up and be counted too, far too many of them playing with no passion, they may not have any confidence but that doesn’t stop you playing your heart out. If they can’t be arsed to play for the badge, show them the door.

 

[JAS94]

“Change is inevitable and especially in football…”

Change can also be massively disruptive, and expensive, particularly if not handled well. And football certainly isn’t an industry that ought to be held up as a shining beacon as how organisations and companies should be managed - indeed, I’d argue that the reverse is true.

The better companies are those that have a high degree of stability but retain the ability to continuously improve and innovate by means of evolution as opposed to revolution.

And that’s true when it comes to football. Arsenal under Wenger and now Arteta, United under Ferguson, Liverpool under Klopp, Crewe under Gradi, Harrogate under Weaver, City under Pep, Burnley under Dyche.

Contrast this with Chelski, United since Ferguson, Everton and literally dozens of other clubs who hire and fire managers seemingly with the changes of the seasons

Completely understand your point James. Continuous improvement and innovation is integral to success of companies/businesses and is something that should be strived for and I guess football if you look at it in that respect. However, can you honestly say that we were seeing continuous improvement and development? If anything we were showing severe regression. Performances terrible, sticking to the same thing over and over again when it clearly isn’t working is in fact the opposite of innovation. Ultimately when that happens and problems are apparent, any business with a good business model and culture would recognise the need for change and those at the top would be culpable.

With regard to stability. We had the stability last year, if the managers were let go at the back end of last year, the club would have still had that stability and time to effectively take its time to pick the right person for the job with a clean slate and 100% of the next season in front of them.

 

[Andy]

“The state that the previous manager had left us in”.

You mean a record of W4 D2 L7.

Not great, but hardly disastrous.

Sorry. But this was a long time coming.

The state they left us in was bad, and the fact they didnt rectify the problem we could all see for 12 months was shameful.

 

[James Wood]

Sorry. But this was a long time coming.

The state they left us in was bad, and the fact they didnt rectify the problem we could all see for 12 months was shameful.

I think that your use of the highly pejorative term “shameful” is pretty shameful in itself as it gives them no credit for the amazing job that they did and what they achieved during their time at the club.

I did say at the time when some were calling for them to go “Be careful what you wish for”. Well, that wish has turned into a bit of a nightmare hasn’t it?

 

[Andy]

I think that your use of the highly pejorative term “shameful” is pretty shameful in itself as it gives them no credit for the amazing job that they did and what they achieved during their time at the club.

Early on they achieved great things no doubt.

But right now, we’re staring down the barrel of relegation to the midlands league, causing huge financial damage to the club, potentially setting us back years. All because they were reluctant for over 12 months to rectify the obvious issues. So yes. The damage this has done to the club is shameful.

 

[James Wood]

Completely understand your point James. Continuous improvement and innovation is integral to success of companies/businesses and is something that should be strived for and I guess football if you look at it in that respect. However, can you honestly say that we were seeing continuous improvement and development? If anything we were showing severe regression. Performances terrible, sticking to the same thing over and over again when it clearly isn’t working is in fact the opposite of innovation. Ultimately when that happens and problems are apparent, any business with a good business model and culture would recognise the need for change and those at the top would be culpable.

With regard to stability. We had the stability last year, if the managers were let go at the back end of last year, the club would have still had that stability and time to effectively take its time to pick the right person for the job with a clean slate and 100% of the next season in front of them.

I didn’t say that things were good. In fact I think I said that they were going in the wrong direction.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I wonder if the club had held a meet the managerment event in October then the very legitimate and understandable concerns that fans were sharing on the terraces and on this forum (many of which I agreed with) could have been shared with Bow and Goody and they might have got a better idea of the frustration that the tactics they were adopting and seeming unwillingness to alter them was causing amongst the fan base.

Hey, ho. All water under the bridge now….

 

[James Wood]

Early on they achieved great things no doubt.

But right now, we’re staring down the barrel of relegation to the midlands league, causing huge financial damage to the club, potentially setting us back years. All because they were reluctant for over 12 months to rectify the obvious issues. So yes. The damage this has done to the club is shameful.

And I stand by my view that your use of this highly pejorative and wholly undeserved term is utterly shameful. But not unexpected from Mr Negativity.

 

[Callum74]

I think the overriding theme here, regardless of your opinions of either of the previous management's is that as a club, there are clear lessons to be learnt from the last 18 months.

The situation is now stark, we will almost certainly be heading for the Midlands division and we have to get that right - if we model ourselves similar to the way Congleton prepared, we will be fine I have no doubt. If we do not start that process now however, well we've all seen what happens then.

It is crucial that the memberships voice is heard and in turn, the membership also support and step up where needed - I think at some point in the near future, an open forum for fans and the board to discuss, without the constraints of an AGM agenda, would be a positive step in ensuring that everyone is on the same page and on board with the task of returning at the first time of asking.

There have been mistakes made that cannot happen again, but we have to rebuild and get that momentum from the 19/20 season again.

 

[Andy]

And I stand by my view that your use of this highly pejorative and wholly undeserved term is utterly shameful. But not unexpected from Mr Negativity.

James, why are you completely incapable of having a discussion with anyone without resorting to personal jibes?

 

[Ben]

Early on they achieved great things no doubt.

But right now, we’re staring down the barrel of relegation to the midlands league, causing huge financial damage to the club, potentially setting us back years. All because they were reluctant for over 12 months to rectify the obvious issues. So yes. The damage this has done to the club is shameful.

Spot on, Andy.

I don’t think anyone is saying that Wayne and Paul didn’t do a good job over the years and we are grateful for that, but for more than a year after the Macc away game, the football was absolutely terrible. Their failure to rectify or even acknowledge the problems many of us had raised and could see staring us in the face was indeed shameful. As I’ve said previously, a change in management should have been made at the back end of last season or in the summer. Most other clubs would have done this.

Instead, the problems were allowed to continue into this season and by the time they had finally left, it was always going to be tough for a new manager. I feel sorry for Damian as he did inherit a mess and had his hands tied to a considerable degree, but unfortunately he wasn’t able to turn things round and it’s not worked out. I wish him the best of luck.

I don’t think it’s doing anyone any good the ‘I told you so comments’, almost like some wanted Damian to fail. The fact it didn’t work out with him doesn’t mean fans were wrong wanting Wayne and Paul to go. The appointment just wasn’t right or made at the right time.

As a fan base, we all need to pull together now and stop dwelling on the past (what’s done is done) and get behind the team and whoever the managers are for the remainder of the season, as well as accepting our likely fate into the Midlands and getting the club as well prepared for that as possible and hopefully bounce back for better times ahead. A fan meeting to discuss the way forward would be a great idea.

 

[Alan Riding]

The only thing I would add to this thread is the reluctance of Wayne, Paul or even Damian to use the Boost the budget funds.

I am and still are against the principle of the fund as I believe the club long term needs the money and the board should decide how much is available so that we have a club 5, 10, 15 years on. Having said that surely there has been some quality players available at a reasonable price since October onwards.

 

[James Wood]

The only thing I would add to this thread is the reluctance of Wayne, Paul or even Damian to use the Boost the budget funds.

I am and still are against the principle of the fund as I believe the club long term needs the money and the board should decide how much is available so that we have a club 5, 10, 15 years on. Having said that surely there has been some quality players available at a reasonable price since October onwards.

Yes, puzzling that Alan.
I can only presume that Bow and Goody were planning to wait until later in the season to see if they needed it or not but their departure meant that they didn’t have an opportunity to use it. (My view is that they ought to have have used it as early as possible to secure the quality of players that might have kept us out of a relegation scrap.

In many respects Damian was probably in a similar position in that his tenure ended before he had identified the players he thought he needed to improve the squad

 

[Charliebel]

At the end of the day Football managers are judged on results .

 

[James Wood]

James, why are you completely incapable of having a discussion with anyone without resorting to personal jibes?

Completely capable Andy. But I take exception to the type of language you used to describe Bow and Goody’s management of the club and I therefore make no apology for calling you out for it.
Unsatisfactory or disappointing yes, but shameful certainly not

Yes the football was pretty dire and I, like many, was increasingly frustrated about the style of play and seemingly negative tactics. But at the time of their departure the league record read P 13 W4 D2 L7 Pts 14. Look at it now!

 

[Andy]

therefore make no apology for calling you out for it.

9/10 I log on to this forum you are making some sort of childish remark at another forum user. Please stop doing this.

 

[James Wood]

9/10 I log on to this forum you are making some sort of childish remark at another forum user. Please stop doing this.

Very school mam-ish comment I must say!

I find that the majority of your posts are negative and critical.

Shameful is a word that ought to be associated with the ‘Three Unwise Monkeys’, The Con-man and Rushe the drug dealer on the way they managed NVFC but certainly not that should be used to describe Bow and Goody’s last 18 months in charge.

 

[Andy]

I find that the majority of your posts are negative and critical.

Simply untrue. I’m not going to waste my time engaging with someone who is clearly unreasonable.

 

[Hi Jean]

Very school mam-ish comment I must say!

I find that the majority of your posts are negative and critical.

Shameful is a word that ought to be associated with the ‘Three Unwise Monkeys’, The Con-man and Rushe the drug dealer on the way they managed NVFC but certainly not that should be used to describe Bow and Goody’s last 18 months in charge.

@Edge here he goes again. See my comment on the Damien departure thread, do something about this.

 

[Edge]

@Edge here he goes again. See my comment on the Damien departure thread, do something about this.

There’s no need to highlight every post that you disagree with.
Any reported posts are investigated by the mods & if a breach of forum rules is found to have taken place then warnings will be issued.
Enough warning points will result in a ban.

 

[Hi Jean]

There’s no need to highlight every post that you disagree with.
Any reported posts are investigated by the mods & if a breach of forum rules is found to have taken place then warnings will be issued.
Enough warning points will result in a ban.

It’s not about disagreeing though Edge, it’s about calling out unacceptable behaviour which you sweep under the carpet because you know him and because he has lots of programs.

You’d ban anyone else who does what he does and you know it.