Storming of the Capitol Building

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Ben

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Taking out all politics, Trump and the actions of his supporters were unacceptable in what happened in the Capitol building. Their behaviour symbolised his presidency and showed no respect for democracy while aiding enemies of the west.

Whether you’re Tory or Labour, right or left-wing or either, Trump and his fans behaviour is to be condemned. Thankfully most people seem to have condemned it which restores my faith in humanity.

Hopefully a Biden presidency will bring some much-needed normality, stability and respect for democratic institutions, as well as repairing America’s standing in the world and healing some of the huge divides which exist in American society.
 

david cyprus

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Nov 12, 2019
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The only person Trump think's about is Donald Trump, followed by his selfish brainless idiot children. He told the morons to go to the capitol with him ,but he forgot & went to his bunker, ( 5 times draft dodger Donald) This is the man who banned muslims entering the country but has done more damage to democracy than any other person in the USA. With a bit of luck our pound shop Donald trump we go the same way in a few year's now that Labour has a leader.
 
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Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Hopefully a Biden presidency will bring some much-needed normality, stability and respect for democratic institutions, as well as repairing America’s standing in the world and healing some of the huge divides which exist in American society.

I wouldn't bet on the Democrats and Biden being the healing balm that America needs right now. They are stoking up the rhetoric trying to impeach Trump and I am sure there will be some payback by Trump supporters in due course. The more that the Democrats carry on with this pursuit of Trump the longer the healing process will take. In 10 days they have the keys to the White House, why risk riots on the lawn by trying to impeach an already defeated and discredited president?
 
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James Wood

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When you see pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails & tie wraps then I'd say insurrection is a pretty good description
Yet again I think that Andy is in denial about what is really happening in the US, U.K. and other states (Turkey, Poland, Hungary) re the dangerous growth of right wing populist governments. I’m not saying that we are seeing a repeat of the 1930s - yet - but there are a lot of worrying echoes from history at the moment.
 

James Wood

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I wouldn't bet on the Democrats and Biden being the healing balm that America needs right now. They are stoking up the rhetoric trying to impeach Trump and I am sure there will be some payback by Trump supporters in due course. The more that the Democrats carry on with this pursuit of Trump the longer the healing process will take. In 10 days they have the keys to the White House, why risk riots on the lawn by trying to impeach an already defeated and discredited president?
Knutsfordian - again I find myself in the worrying position of agreeing with you!
IMHO the major priorities for the Biden administration should be I) dealing with the Covid situation and ii) rolling back the negative and dreadful legislation introduced by Trump since 2016, particularly relating to the environment.
 
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Andy

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Yet again I think that Andy is in denial about what is really happening in the US, U.K. and other states (Turkey, Poland, Hungary) re the dangerous growth of right wing populist governments. I’m not saying that we are seeing a repeat of the 1930s - yet - but there are a lot of worrying echoes from history at the moment.

What am I in denial about? I’m saying we’re seeing a rise of extremes and violence on both sides of the political spectrum. I think you’re the one in denial here.

The only worrying echos from history at the moment are coming from China and are largely going ignored. China has “re-education camps” for Uyghur Muslims, and just last week a Chinese State run twitter account posted an article boasting about Sterilising Uyghur woman, in a bit of evil propaganda that would have made Joseph Goebbels proud.

Thankfully, today the “right wing populist” government that echo back to the 30s, as you would call them, have said they will use the Modern Slavery act to ban Chinese imports linked to human rights abuses. It’s not enough, but it’s a welcome start.

Maybe it’s time to stop trying to compare working class people Nazis, yeah? It achieves nothing.
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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If they are not careful the impeachment of Trump will garner more interest and endeavour than the inauguration of Biden and any goodwill and impetus that would have been afforded to the new administration will be lost. Democrats need to get a grip and focus on what needs to be done. They have folks dying all across America and that's more important than a president who is just on the verge of leaving office anyway. IF Biden gets behind the curve on this one it will blight his presidency
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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What am I in denial about? I’m saying we’re seeing a rise of extremes and violence on both sides of the political spectrum. I think you’re the one in denial here.

The only worrying echos from history at the moment are coming from China and are largely going ignored. China has “re-education camps” for Uyghur Muslims, and just last week a Chinese State run twitter account posted an article boasting about Sterilising Uyghur woman, in a bit of evil propaganda that would have made Joseph Goebbels proud.

Thankfully, today the “right wing populist” government that echo back to the 30s, as you would call them, have said they will use the Modern Slavery act to ban Chinese imports linked to human rights abuses. It’s not enough, but it’s a welcome start.

Maybe it’s time to stop trying to compare working class people Nazis, yeah? It achieves nothing.
I think what we are seeing here is the impact of social media on politics. The ability of people to mobilise and be be mobilised has no historical precedent and therefore comparisons with the past are somewhat erroneous. The parts of people's thoughts that had no previous outlet and were discouraged in pubs etc, now have no restrictions and few boundaries. I am not sure where it ends. On reflection I think within Western democracies, despite those on the extreme left or right, most people are clustered within a middle ground of reasonableness that is reflected in our election results. Long may that continue
 
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Andy

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I think what we are seeing here is the impact of social media on politics. The ability of people to mobilise and be be mobilised has no historical precedent and therefore comparisons with the past are somewhat erroneous. The parts of people's thoughts that had no previous outlet and were discouraged in pubs etc, now have no restrictions and few boundaries. I am not sure where it ends. On reflection I think within Western democracies, despite those on the extreme left or right, most people are clustered within a middle ground of reasonableness that is reflected in our election results. Long may that continue

I agree with both points.

Social media has become and immensely powerful tool for communication. I actually agree with what Labour said in the last election when they eluded to the fact that the internet has almost become a right to have. Which is why everyone should be worried about the current purge social media are undergoing.

And I fully agree with your second point, 90% of people are centre, whether that be centre left or centre right. I tried to put that across in my post earlier in the thread. We have a very middle of the road Conservative party, and under Keir Starmer, Labour look to be shifting back towards the centre. So when you see comments on social media, you have to chuckle.
 
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James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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I agree with both points.

Social media has become and immensely powerful tool for communication. I actually agree with what Labour said in the last election when they eluded to the fact that the internet has almost become a right to have. Which is why everyone should be worried about the current purge social media are undergoing.

And I fully agree with your second point, 90% of people are centre, whether that be centre left or centre right. I tried to put that across in my post earlier in the thread. We have a very middle of the road Conservative party, and under Keir Starmer, Labour look to be shifting back towards the centre. So when you see comments on social media, you have to chuckle.
Bloody hell, if this Tory party are “middle of the road”, I wouldn’t like to see one that was right wing!
 
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Andy

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Bloody hell, if this Tory party are “middle of the road”, I wouldn’t like to see one that was right wing!

I know, those evil Tories banning imports linked to human rights abuse.

With Boris rumoured to be on his way out, and with Rishi Sunak the favourite to replace him, which would see the UKs first ever BAME PM, that would be peak intolerance 🙄
 

Edge

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Call me old fashioned but if laws have been broken then people should be prosecuted for them.

On the subject of social media - if the US had laws on hate speech then you wonder how different things might have been
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Bloody hell, if this Tory party are “middle of the road”, I wouldn’t like to see one that was right wing!
You mean a Tory party that has spent £billions supporting families during the pandemic and is increasing public spending?

Brexit was a policy which found the favour of both Labour and Tory MPs and it's only in recent years it became tagged as being the flagship of the Tory right. Unfortunately no one told all those hardline Labour voters, who never bought into the EU, what to believe and how to vote. It goes to show that despite all the claims by the metropolitan Labour members that they want to rejoin the EU, that Brexit has cross party support

I don't think anyone would describe Boris Johnson as right wing. More often as libertine. When this pandemic is finally put to bed and normal politics resumes, I think Boris will be seen to move more to the left and the differences between Kier Starmer and Boris will be wafer thin
 
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Andy

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I don't think anyone would describe Boris Johnson as right wing. More often as libertine. When this pandemic is finally put to bed and normal politics resumes, I think Boris will be seen to move more to the left and the differences between Kier Starmer and Boris will be wafer thin

He won 2 London Mayoral elections. A right wing politician would never manage that.
 

Ben

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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I wouldn't bet on the Democrats and Biden being the healing balm that America needs right now. They are stoking up the rhetoric trying to impeach Trump and I am sure there will be some payback by Trump supporters in due course. The more that the Democrats carry on with this pursuit of Trump the longer the healing process will take. In 10 days they have the keys to the White House, why risk riots on the lawn by trying to impeach an already defeated and discredited president?
Whether Trump being impeached is the right course of action is a matter for debate.

However there absolutely should be consequences for the behaviour of him and his supporters, as they have made a mockery of US democracy and can’t be allowed to get away with it.

I feel that he should either resign or failing that,he should be removed from office by constitutional means. And failing that, he should be impeached, as leading Democrats propose.
 

Ben

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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You mean a Tory party that has spent £billions supporting families during the pandemic and is increasing public spending?

Brexit was a policy which found the favour of both Labour and Tory MPs and it's only in recent years it became tagged as being the flagship of the Tory right. Unfortunately no one told all those hardline Labour voters, who never bought into the EU, what to believe and how to vote. It goes to show that despite all the claims by the metropolitan Labour members that they want to rejoin the EU, that Brexit has cross party support

I don't think anyone would describe Boris Johnson as right wing. More often as libertine. When this pandemic is finally put to bed and normal politics resumes, I think Boris will be seen to move more to the left and the differences between Kier Starmer and Boris will be wafer thin
To be fair, any political party would have had to spend money during this pandemic. It was an absolute necessity so it doesn’t really say anything about the Tory party ideology under Johnson.

Regarding Brexit, no doubt there are many Labour voters who backed it and the party should respect that, but I think there’s no doubt that more Brexit supporting MPs reside in the Tories than Labour.

On your last point, he’s definitely a libertarian and you can see that with how reluctant he is to oppose these current Covid restrictions/lockdowns. I think saying he’s not right-wing is a touch too far. Have a look at his policy history and you may reconsider. Starmer and Johnson are on a lot more common ground compared to Corbyn but there are still significant ideological differences between the two parties. I’d say Johnson is more right-wing than May and Cameron.
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Whether Trump being impeached is the right course of action is a matter for debate.

However there absolutely should be consequences for the behaviour of him and his supporters, as they have made a mockery of US democracy and can’t be allowed to get away with it.

I feel that he should either resign or failing that,he should be removed from office by constitutional means. And failing that, he should be impeached, as leading Democrats propose.
I think there lots of instances where politicians have exhorted people to take to the street in protests that have ended up as riots - a few of them over here in the UK. I can't ever remember a politician being called to account in the courts for their behaviour or the consequential riots.

Trump is absolutely hated by the Democrats and he raises their hackles like no other Republican. But I think the political equivalent of the red mist has descended here. The Democrats are being blind sided by their rage stoked up by Nancy Pelosi. Some common sense and calm needs to prevail and it looks like the Democrats are going to fail their first big presidential test. Biden can't call for calm AND impeach Trump. The two actions are completely incompatible. It might be not what they want to do, but they need to get over it asap
 
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Andy

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Bidens job is to bring unity. Hearing the beginning of this speech, I’m not sure he’s the man for the task. This will only cause further divisions.

The priority should be helping all small businesses, and helping all working class Americans get back on their feet after Covid.

Contradictory to his victory speech, where he said he would be “president for all Americans”

 
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toddyb

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Knutsfordian you still post tripe,and by the way I have not come to like you ,unlike James.