Storming of the Capitol Building

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James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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The supposed cradle of democracy in the free world has today been stormed by ultra right wing followers of Donald Trump who exhorted his followers to do so and is still denying that he lost. Four years of lies, lies and more lies, dog-whistle politics and this is what you get.

And if you think that this could not happen here, just think for a moment. A country split down the middle. Lies and misinformation spread by the government,
media and the likes of Farage (the biggest Trump apologist in this country). The forced suspension of Parliament.

Huge discrepancies between the haves and have nots, the chumocracy. A major part of our nation increasingly favouring a split from the union. Huge areas of the nation so far behind others in terms of opportunities, basic resources (Like decent housing) health and education. Massively skewed investment between the south and the rest of the U.K. Meanwhile £Ms are spaffed by this incompetent shower.

And some wonder why I rage about the sheer and utter inequality that exists in this country of ours and how easily many of these problems could be resolved - if the will was there at the very top 😡😡
 

James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
804
386
73
The supposed cradle of democracy in the free world has today been stormed by ultra right wing followers of Donald Trump who exhorted his followers to do so and is still denying that he lost. Four years of lies, lies and more lies, dog-whistle politics and this is what you get.

And if you think that this could not happen here, just think for a moment. A country split down the middle. Lies and misinformation spread by the government,
media and the likes of Farage (the biggest Trump apologist in this country). The forced suspension of Parliament.

Huge discrepancies between the haves and have nots, the chumocracy. A major part of our nation increasingly favouring a split from the union. Huge areas of the nation so far behind others in terms of opportunities, basic resources (Like decent housing) health and education. Massively skewed investment between the south and the rest of the U.K. Meanwhile £Ms are spaffed by this incompetent shower.

And some wonder why I rage about the sheer and utter inequality that exists in this country of ours and how easily many of these problems could be resolved - if the will was there at the very top 😡😡
Let’s not forget Johnson illegally prorogued our Parliament just over a year ago by lying to the Queen. Now he’s tweeting about upholding American democracy. You couldn’t make it up.
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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This is why you don’t engage with or platform the Julia Hartley Brewers’, Farage; the Darren Grimes’, the Allison Pearsons’, the Lawrence Fox’s, the Tufton Street extremists or the Priti Patel’s. Because they are all using the tools of fear & hatred to achieve extremism like this here.
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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The US hasn’t been the home of democracy for a long time. Just look at Florida in the Bush - Gore election.

It was the rust belt that saw Trump to victory in 2016. Normal, decent people who were fed up with the system that has ignored them for decades. I hope the media doesn’t tar these people with the same brush as the lunatic extremists that stormed the capitol yesterday.

Lot of hypocrisy on show from all sides today. Extreme Trumpists criticised the far left for the riots after the 2016 election, and then carry out today’s actions. Then on the flip side, people who have been quiet about riots for the last 4 years are speaking out today. It’s not the first time Capitol Hill has been stormed. It was on 2018 by anti-kavanagh protestors.

Sheer hypocrisy on both fronts over the last 4 years has led to this.

Love Twitter hypocrisy, too, especially regarding who’s been pictured with trump over the last 4 years. If I was one of those people were silent or defended Corbyn being chummy with Terrorists, I’d stay quiet right now.

You’d hope those people who spent 4 years trying to overturn democracy and Brexit in the UK, will take today to look at the shocking scenes in America, and reflect on what can happen when you play games with democracy.
 
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Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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This is why you don’t engage with or platform the Julia Hartley Brewers’, Farage; the Darren Grimes’, the Allison Pearsons’, the Lawrence Fox’s, the Tufton Street extremists or the Priti Patel’s. Because they are all using the tools of fear & hatred to achieve extremism like this here.

Such a bad take, James.

The people storming the Capitol don’t listen to people like Julia Hartley Brewer, and Priti Patel. Don’t use this as a stick to beat people you don’t like, because that’s daft.

Its actually quite insulting that you try even compare the two.

These people listen to conspiracy theorists, people who have been censored and pushed to dark corners of the web.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, when you push people underground, things get out of hand.
 

James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
804
386
73
Let’s not forget Johnson illegally prorogued our Parliament just over a year ago by lying to the Queen. Now he’s tweeting about upholding American democracy. You couldn’t make it
The US hasn’t been the home of democracy for a long time. Just look at Florida in the Bush - Gore election.

It was the rust belt that saw Trump to victory in 2016. Normal, decent people who were fed up with the system that has ignored them for decades. I hope the media doesn’t tar these people with the same brush as the lunatic extremists that stormed the capitol yesterday.

Lot of hypocrisy on show from all sides today. Extreme Trumpists criticised the far left for the riots after the 2016 election, and then carry out today’s actions. Then on the flip side, people who have been quiet about riots for the last 4 years are speaking out today. It’s not the first time Capitol Hill has been stormed. It was on 2018 by anti-kavanagh protestors.

Sheer hypocrisy on both fronts over the last 4 years has led to this.

Love Twitter hypocrisy, too, especially regarding who’s been pictured with trump over the last 4 years. If I was one of those people were silent or defended Corbyn being chummy with Terrorists, I’d stay quiet right now.

You’d hope those people who spent 4 years trying to overturn democracy and Brexit in the UK, will take today to look at the shocking scenes in America, and reflect on what can happen when you play games with democracy.
Ah democracy
Such a bad take, James.

The people storming the Capitol don’t listen to people like Julia Hartley Brewer, and Priti Patel. Don’t use this as a stick to beat people you don’t like, because that’s daft.

Its actually quite insulting that you try even compare the two.

These people listen to conspiracy theorists, people who have been censored and pushed to dark corners of the web.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, when you push people underground, things get out of hand.
So you don’t draw any comparisons between the likes of Fox News and Heartless-Bastard, Grimes, Oakshott etc? The direct spread of lies over and over again, a rhetoric against “illegals”, the EU, Covid, our own judicial systems.

My take is spot on.
 
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Andy

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Your take is poor

It’s the sort of broad brush mentality that has led America to this point. You talk about hatred, yet you show absolute contempt for anyone that disagrees with you. For example you’ve convinced yourself that Daily Mail readers are evil bigots. You do realise it’s exactly that sort of thing that’s contributed to this? Both sides guilty of it in America.

You cannot find reconciliation if you refuse to recognise others’ grievances.
 
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James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
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Your take is poor

It’s the sort of broad brush mentality that has led America to this point. You talk about hatred, yet you show absolute contempt for anyone that disagrees with you. For example you’ve convinced yourself that Daily Mail readers are evil bigots. You do realise it’s exactly that sort of thing that’s contributed to this? Both sides guilty of it in America.

You cannot find reconciliation if you refuse to recognise others’ grievances.
Pots, kettles and black things I think Andy. Take a long, hard look at yourself before criticising others.
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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No one can condone the actions of those who stormed the Capitol, there are no excuses.

No doubt in time to come many books will be written about the Trump presidency, why and how it happened and also now how it ended. But lets not forget 70million people voted for Trump. They are not all ultra right wing bigots, so there has to be an understanding as to why the Democrats failed to win the hearts and minds of so many people. What is it about a message that is supposedly based on fairness and equality that has managed to alienate a huge number of USA citizens who felt obliged to storm their national parliament to stop it happening.

The democrats also laid out the the path for this disharmony in their original failure to accept the defeat of Hillary Clinton, trying to impeach the president, the Mueller enquiry and so on. They did everything possible to disrupt the Trump presidency - so why are they surprised when this disharmony emerges when they want to take the reigns of power?

I suspect it will take another presidential election to fully close the door on this period of presidential disharmony, but I wouldn't bet on that at this point in time.

I am not sure that the inequalities in personal wealth, housing, health etc are at the root of this rift in politics between left and right. There has always been inequality. One of my father's early lessons was "life's not fair". Nothing has changed, but more importantly the majority of the electorate don't buy into the messages and vote for the policies that many would see as a necessary requirement to rectify this position. Why not? Until that question can be answered then raging against the outcomes will achieve nothing.

Personally I think its about control. People resent the amount of intrusion into everyday life that would be required to implement policies to eradicate unfairness in every shape and form, Its the underlying reason for Brexit, its why as country we don't behave as some of the Asian countries, its why we resent lockdowns. Its who we are. Where we are now is we balance that control against unfairness and collectively we are not prepared to move.
 

Andy

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Pots, kettles and black things I think Andy. Take a long, hard look at yourself before criticising others.


That’s exactly the point I’m making. This should be an opportunity for everyone to take stock. This sort of thing has been coming for a long time, especially in America. They’ve spent the last 4 years with their fingers in their ears, hurling insults at eachother. Not listening. I’m man enough to admit that in the past I’ve been guilty of it

You went straight in to a barrage of hate, with a broad brush trying to link anyone who’s even listened to someone as tame as Julia Hartley Brewer to this insanity.

The foundations of this appalling day were laid throughout the summer of 2020. Politicians and American media were actively encouraging violent protests. Instead of getting on their high horses as they are right now, they should be reflecting on their own actions over recent years.

E0AF3175-A32D-4F9C-AC2D-D1FEE50E9EAC.jpeg

The violence was unacceptable in the summer, and it was unacceptable this week. This is the danger of turning a blind eye to violence when it suits.

James you also started to list journalists and Figures you feel spread hatred and fear. But it was Shelagh Fogerty that called for the protestors to be shot. I’ve never seen someone like Julia Hartley Brewer called for a political protestor to be shot.


0D271A5B-9E0C-4441-902A-FA39E3FEB5F4.png
I’m not defending the woman who was killed. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But the point I am making is journalists calling for protestors deaths is really extreme.


All sides intolerance of eachother has led to something like this, encouraged to an extent by the media.

So next time you want to throw insults at someone you disagree with, stop and think for a moment. If we all do that in 2021, maybe we won’t see a repeat of the violence we’ve seen over the last 18 months in particular.

As I said previously, you cannot find reconciliation if you refuse to recognise others’ grievances.
 
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Knutsfordian

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As I said previously, you cannot find reconciliation if you refuse to recognise others’ grievances.
It seems strange that after an opening gambit preaching peace and reconciliation, the Democrats are now in full on triumphalism mode, rubbing the noses of Republicans into the dirt and threatening to impeach Trump. There is no understanding of why 70million Americans voted for Trump or attempt to win them over. America is going to be a very fractious place for many years to come.
 
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Andy

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It seems strange that after an opening gambit preaching peace and reconciliation, the Democrats are now in full on triumphalism mode, rubbing the noses of Republicans into the dirt and threatening to impeach Trump. There is no understanding of why 70million Americans voted for Trump or attempt to win them over. America is going to be a very fractious place for many years to come.

Worrying. In a pretty optimistic person, I’d hope that this could be a moment for everyone to reflect. It’s not looking like that.

I said in an earlier post, I hope they don’t try and paint the 75m Americans with the same brush as the handful of loons in the capitol.
 

Knutsfordian

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Trump has done a lot of what he said he would do. He kept his election promises. If Biden thinks those 70 million Americans are going to roll over for him, he is very much mistaken. After the dust has settled there will be a back lash and I suspect Trump isn't quite as done for as most Democrats would like. Impeaching him would prevent him standing again, put probably not being the power behind the republican throne (so to speak)

I think our government (as will most European governments) will have a tightrope to walk. You can't bet that he won't be back in some form or another and I suspect he will bear a grudge for those he thinks turned their faces against him.
 

Knutsfordian

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Its really strange but when you try and use search engines to investigate the Democrat protest in 2018 where the Supreme Court was invaded to protest about the appointment of Kavanaugh as a judge, you first of all get pages about the Republicans storming the Capitol and protesting in favour of Trump. Now of course this could well be search engines trying to reflect current topical searches, or it could (forgive me for my bad thoughts) be "Big Tech" carrying a torch for the Democrat cause. Not for me to call them lying, deceitful tw@ts but you know, it does make you think ;)
 

Andy

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Twitter has gone on a purge of 10,000s of right of centre twitter accounts. It’s not a good look.

This should be something that concerns everyone. Strange to see some on the left celebrating this. Today it might be someone they disagree with, tomorrow it could be them.
 
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Alan M

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Its really strange but when you try and use search engines to investigate the Democrat protest in 2018 where the Supreme Court was invaded to protest about the appointment of Kavanaugh as a judge, you first of all get pages about the Republicans storming the Capitol and protesting in favour of Trump. Now of course this could well be search engines trying to reflect current topical searches, or it could (forgive me for my bad thoughts) be "Big Tech" carrying a torch for the Democrat cause. Not for me to call them lying, deceitful tw@ts but you know, it does make you think ;)

I just tried and got a wealth of reports on p1 of google, nothing about recent events. Depends what you put into your search.
I think "invasion" is stretching it a bit though.


 

Andy

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I just tried and got a wealth of reports on p1 of google, nothing about recent events. Depends what you put into your search.
I think "invasion" is stretching it a bit though.



That is half the point, though. The use of language is inconsistent.

Take the scenes at the Capitol this week. Some in the media genuinely used the word “coup”. What happened at Capitol Hill wasn’t a ‘coup’ or ‘insurrection’. It was a few knuckleheads who, to their surprise, got past security, and when they reached the seat of power had absolutely no idea what to do next. They just took pictures of eachother.

A man in a Viking costume taking selfie’s is in no way comparable to a Military Junta.

People are lecturing Trump about his dangerous use of language, yet aren’t really practicing what they preach.
 

Alan M

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Yes and no. I think security was abysmal to non-existent, which, considering the protest was being announced almost daily in the run-up, notably on Trump twitter, is worrying. A deeper worry is when you compare the levels of security wheeled out for the BLM protest in the same place a few months earlier. I think the majority of those in the crowd were being relatively sheep-like in just going with the flow, and indeed when they first got inside the images made it look like they were embarking on a group guided tour as they filed in. But there were (as usual by all such events on any side) a small number who once inside decided to push their luck and (as yet more images of the events and the aftermath show) did a lot more than just take pictures of each other. And I think Trump knew exactly what he was doing not just with the days of twitter posts beforehand but also with his speech just before outside the White House, encouraging them to "be strong" with their protest. And then, rather than intervene to stop them when it was getting out of control, he was in a viewing party watching it all unfold with family and close associates (who were egging them on from afar). Only after a couple of hours did he make a statement - telling the protesters how wonderful they were and asking them now to go home. Too little too late. He has courted extremist elements and tried to use them for his own ends, but he unleashed something over which he actually had no control, because this minority felt emboldened in what they were doing because they felt they were sanctioned by the man at the top.

The man in the horned hat is a leading figure in Qanon and the flag he was carrying was actually a spear with a flag tied to it. Not a military junta, but nonetheless more than just a harmless figure of fun.

As for the rest being peaceful, here's a few examples of those arrested by DC police ...
 

Edge

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When you see pipe bombs, Molotov cocktails & tie wraps then I'd say insurrection is a pretty good description
 
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