General Election 2017
- Thread starter Andy
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- Jul 28, 2013
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- #202
Stats will show you anything.
This one from tradingeconomics.com shows a growth rate of 1.90 in the most recent quarter. That's an interesting definition of "shrinking"
Add to that another table (which doesn't copy across very well) showing EU GDP per capita as being at its highest ever level and there's further evidence of a negative contraction
Last Previous Highest Lowest Unit
GDP Annual Growth Rate 1.90 1.90 4.60 -5.40 percent
GDP Per Capita 35099.89 34432.16 35099.89 10065.65 USD
GDP Per Capita Ppp 35630.30 34925.59 35630.30 24872.05 USD
Definitely an economy that's going places, ain't it, Alan?
- Jun 24, 2013
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That EU blue sector includes UK. Our own economic output is nowhere near competing with anything in that green sector. But that's by the by. The key question revolves around where our economy will be in, say, 5 years. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can accurately predict that, which is why anyone who guarantees a rosy future outside the EU is at best guilty of misleading the electorate, particularly as much of our economy is currently interwoven with other EU countries, or in the case of transnational corporations based on us being a base within the EU.
When it comes to negotiations with the EU, Leavers have an optimism based on a mixture of hope and the indomitable British spirit. Remainers have a pessimism based on cold reality. As someone remarked to me the other day "At least pessimists are never disappointed".
When it comes to negotiations with the EU, Leavers have an optimism based on a mixture of hope and the indomitable British spirit. Remainers have a pessimism based on cold reality. As someone remarked to me the other day "At least pessimists are never disappointed".
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #204
The terms "neither of us know" followed by "remainders have a pessimism based on cold reality" are two very contradictory statements.
And cold reality? Really? I think not. The cold reality is Alan, that the rest of the world is getting on just fine without being in political union with one and other, if anything, those countries that aren't in political union with one and other are doing far better than those that are.
The cold reality is, there's only 27 nations that feel they have to be in a political union to survive. That's isolationism.
And cold reality? Really? I think not. The cold reality is Alan, that the rest of the world is getting on just fine without being in political union with one and other, if anything, those countries that aren't in political union with one and other are doing far better than those that are.
The cold reality is, there's only 27 nations that feel they have to be in a political union to survive. That's isolationism.
And the cold reality is that the EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries around the world including Britain. What really is isolationism is the ultra-protectionist policies of the likes of Trump, Putin and Le Pen and others of their ilk on the far-right.
I was read something the other day that we do more than three half times as much trade with the EU as we do with America, nine times as much as we do with China and 42 times as much as we do with Australia.
Currently, when we negotiate with America, China or Australia, we are doing as part of a trade bloc that accounts for almost a quarter of world GDP, the world's largest. So Washington, Beijing and Canberra have to take us seriously as we're part of the EU. Outside the EU, we will simply not have that clout, and not only will we behind other countries in the queue for a trade deal, the likes of Washington etc... will have far more cards and power to dictate the terms of any trade deal we do manage to strike outside the EU.
On a different subject, I've just watched May's interview on the Andrew Marr show. A masterclass in how to dodge questions and spout political soundbites about a "strong economy" and a "strong and stable" government but with little substance and few answers. A car crash of an interview in every sense from a weak and incompetent PM totally out of her depth to negotiate Brexit and run the country.
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- Jun 24, 2013
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Pessimism and optimism are states of mind, they are not positions of knowledge in relation to the future. The cold reality is a present state plus a basis of historical fact. There is no contradiction whatsoever.
I can think of lots of examples of countries outside the EU not "getting on just fine" and even some examples of them "getting on just fine" in trading with the EU, but that is largely irrelevant to the general election, which I continue to believe should have a much wider focus than the current obsession of May and co with Brexit über alles.
I can think of lots of examples of countries outside the EU not "getting on just fine" and even some examples of them "getting on just fine" in trading with the EU, but that is largely irrelevant to the general election, which I continue to believe should have a much wider focus than the current obsession of May and co with Brexit über alles.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #207
Well yes, getting back to the 2017 GE, Diane Abbotts been doing the rounds this morning, doing her best to ensure Labour don't get elected.
BBC Radio 4 - Car Crash
Sky News - Train Wreck
LBC - M6 Pile Up
Good Morning Britain - Nuclear Holocaust.
All before 10am. Sounds like to be Diane had a couple of pints her Spoons breakfast this morning.
BBC Radio 4 - Car Crash
Sky News - Train Wreck
LBC - M6 Pile Up
Good Morning Britain - Nuclear Holocaust.
All before 10am. Sounds like to be Diane had a couple of pints her Spoons breakfast this morning.
- Jun 24, 2013
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I couldn't agree more Ben. She bangs on about strong and stable leadership for our country yet the Conservative party haven't even got their own ship in order on that front. Flaky and indecisive leadership more like (with an unintended acronym to go with it).
To say that she's not comfortable in front of camera and that's 'just how she is' is like saying of a chancellor who's not comfortable with numbers - well 'that's just how he/she is'.
The leader of any political party must be a supreme communicator and orator; able to be authoritative in front of camera and in front of any audience, including those which aren't selected by your own party to ensure you're not given a hard time. You have to be able to deliver any message - be that truth or, as often the case, lies - with absolute conviction.
This is not to say she's not a good politician but, to me, leadership material she isn't.
You're right, Nicki. She said on countless occasions that there would be no slap election and yet there has been. While the premise she gave for giving one was that she was being obstructed in terms of Brexit in the houses of parliament, another untruth seeing as it overwhelmingly got through the Commons. And then we have the U-turn on NI rises, a Tory manifesto commitment which she had gone back on.
It would seem that May is making it up as she goes with her weak and indecisive leadership, and no wonder she doesn't want to appear on TV debates as she would be like a rabbit under headlights away from her adviser and script prepared in advance. She only won the Tory leadership race because everyone else dropped out of it.
So it's not a surprise that, with the aid of her friends in the right-wing press, she chooses to attack Corbyn and the Labour party when she doesn't even have her own house in order. I don't know how anyone can trust her and believe a word of what she says. Clueless.
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you can count on one thing if you are in the Weaver Vale area you will be represented by Graham Evans (conservative) and if you live in Tatton you will be represented by Esther Mcvey (conservative).I was told many years ago if the consevatives put a pig wearing a blue rosette up for election the good folk of Cheshire would vote for it !
- Jun 24, 2013
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No defence of Diane Abbott from me, but also no confidence in BoJo as Foreign Sec or for that matter (for example) Jeremy Hunt at Health. The only saving grace is that they got rid of Gove at Education.
Still think Labour are skating a bit on thin ice criticising May's lack of strong and stable leadership qualties, given their own weaknesses in that department. So given the uninspiring prospect of both, perhaps it should come down to policies rather than people. Now there's a radical thought which won't catch on with the overwhelming majority of the MSM.
Still think Labour are skating a bit on thin ice criticising May's lack of strong and stable leadership qualties, given their own weaknesses in that department. So given the uninspiring prospect of both, perhaps it should come down to policies rather than people. Now there's a radical thought which won't catch on with the overwhelming majority of the MSM.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #220
Strong pointers coming out that Boris would lose his role as Foreign sec post election. And considering that he's being kept out the lime light suggests that, or they're keeping him out the way until he stops calling people "mugwumps". Labour really need to keep Abbott and McDonnell out of the media, however that is difficult for the Shadow Home Sec and Shadow Chancellor.
I think the Conservatives are in the "quiet before the storm" period. I think after the Local elections when the Manifesto comes out, they'll come out all guns blazing.
Labours problem is, they've made fistfuls of promises before they've even written their manifesto. They're going to be in a position where they'll be called out of back tracking just on the release of a manifesto. It just feels like no one in Labour is actually thinking things through at the moment.