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From the Outside Looking In….

Knutsfordian said:
And therein lies the dilemma - if you believe that at some point the club will fail anyway - which ever path you walk the team you love goes. Just a question of when. At least by being brave and looking to secure local football in some shape or form, there will be a club for other Charliebels to watch. Again I would emphasise that whatever part of town you come from or support, it's a hugely personal, not always logical decision and that each individual is entitled their own opinion
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It may seem a sensible decision for the younger generations or outsiders who don't appreciate the history of the rivalries of old .
I appreciate what you're saying and respect your opinion but for me it's Witton Albion or nothing at all.
I'm sure this is a view shared by many supporters of all 3 sides.
 
Given the paucity of comment it seems difficult to ascertain the level of enthusiasm for the idea. Maybe it’s supporters who don’t use the forum who are keener or indeed less keen??‍♂️ Certainly this particular thread is no great straw poll either way ?
 
Tez said:
Given the paucity of comment it seems difficult to ascertain the level of enthusiasm for the idea. Maybe it’s supporters who don’t use the forum who are keener or indeed less keen??‍♂️ Certainly this particular thread is no great straw poll either way ?
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The trouble is Tez that so many people have already walked away, that what your left with is the really hard core support of all three teams who continue to support their teams through thick and thin, whom you wouldn't expect to say anything other than fulsome support for their team. The uncomfortable truth is that there aren't enough of them to keep all the teams afloat
 
Knutsfordian said:
The trouble is Tez that so many people have already walked away, that what your left with is the really hard core support of all three teams who continue to support their teams through thick and thin, whom you wouldn't expect to say anything other than fulsome support for their team. The uncomfortable truth is that there aren't enough of them to keep all the teams afloat
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So how do you go about ascertaining whether there is sufficient support if everyone keeps their thoughts to themselves or restricts them to a small group of terrace mates? Lots of favourable fan talk (apparently) across the divide, but you wouldn’t credit it judging by recent responses?‍♂️ Perhaps it’ll be telepathy which gets the ball rolling ?
 
I wonder what fans of Inverness Caley Thistle would have to say about this dilemma?
 
Knutsfordian said:
The trouble is Tez that so many people have already walked away, that what your left with is the really hard core support of all three teams who continue to support their teams through thick and thin, whom you wouldn't expect to say anything other than fulsome support for their team. The uncomfortable truth is that there aren't enough of them to keep all the teams afloat
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Unlike many Vics / Witton fans, my family had no long term allegiances to either club, my dad having moved down here just before I was born.

One of my good friends at primary school was the son of a Wittoner so I do recall going to the odd Albion game with him when I was 9 or 10ish. But I’d also been to watch the odd Vics game with my dad around this time. But had things turned out differently than I might have been a Witton fan!?

It was only when another mate of mine started to go to watch Vics in back end of the 75/76 season that I started going on a regular basis. Looking back at the records in ATFAS, I can recall the 3-2 Cheshire Senior Cup win over Witton at TDF in about the February in front of what I thought was a massive crowd (and it was for that season). It got me hooked on watching Vics. My first hero was - unsurprisingly- Jimmy Rolland. Then along came the 76/77 season - my first year at SJD - when almost all my contemporaries started to watch the Vics. After that point, there was no going back. Vics were the No 1 team in town and supplanted Chelsea in my footballing affections (how I had ended up supporting them in the first place is a wholly different story!).

But the point that I’m eventually trying to make is that yes, most Vics, Witton and 74 fans are now made up from the ‘hard-core’ supporters who have had long term connections with their club and, as Knutsfordian says, will continue to back their side to the hilt, come what may. And I really do not have a problem with that standpoint.

But Northwich is a far, far different place than it was in 1975 when most people were born, brought up, lived, worked, raised families and then died in the same town. And those families were either Green or (Gawd bless ‘em!) Red.

Nowadays the vast majority of the residents simply don’t have any allegiance to any of the three clubs. Many are far happier to sit on the pub or their homes of. Saturday and watch ‘The Big Boys’ football on SKY, BT, Amazon et al. And most simply can’t believe that we have three clubs in what is such a small town, especially when there are far bigger locations with just one!

But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t an appetite out their for people to support their local clubs. Far from it!

Ok, they’ve had significant external backing, but you just need to witness what has happened at Macc, Wrexham to see what can occur when a club gets the backing of the entire town. But even the likes of Eastleigh regularly attract crowd crowds of 2k + when a decade or so ago they struggled to get over three figures.

On many Saturday afternoon’s when listening to the results come through it often strikes me how clubs such as Burton, Morecambe, Sutton, Harrogate, Stevenage and the like - all of whom were either way below or peers of Vics / Albion in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s are now ALL playing at a higher level.

I could add Redditch, Ashton United, Farsley Celtic, Tamworth, Chorley, Morpeth, Leamington, Dulwich Hamlet, Barwell, Mickleover Sports, Welling United and dozens more to this list.

I’m not saying for one moment that ‘one team in the town’ would automatically mean that it would experience immediate success, but over the last decade we’ve certainly seen the stark results of having three teams in the town. And unless one fan has a seriously big win on the lottery, then things ain’t going to get anything easier for any of the trio in the near future.
 
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Tez said:
So how do you go about ascertaining whether there is sufficient support if everyone keeps their thoughts to themselves or restricts them to a small group of terrace mates? Lots of favourable fan talk (apparently) across the divide, but you wouldn’t credit it judging by recent responses?‍♂️ Perhaps it’ll be telepathy which gets the ball rolling ?
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Firstly, I absolutely agree with James above.

With regards to whether there is genuine widespread public support, I think there would need to be a number of open public debates to discuss the pros and cons. In this I mean proper formal debates, not a shouting match across the terraces. There's a lot at stake, but with the right leadership this really could bring mid Cheshire football back up the pyramid and recreate some widened pride and support in local football.
 
All fascinating points, and a total minefield at the same time. The head says yes, the heart gives a resounding no.

I’d say there’s more at stake for Witton, given the club’s identity sits as the outlier of the three - and as the only ones with a home. And then there’s the club colours to consider!

Has there ever been such a deep-seated non-league rivalry in such a small place? Lots of local inter-town rivalries but not sure there’s been anything quite like this! I may be wrong though.
 
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Witton man said:
All fascinating points, and a total minefield at the same time. The head says yes, the heart gives a resounding no.

I’d say there’s more at stake for Witton, given the club’s identity sits as the outlier of the three - and as the only ones with a home. And then there’s the club colours to consider!

Has there ever been such a deep-seated non-league rivalry in such a small place? Lots of local inter-town rivalries but not sure there’s been anything quite like this! I may be wrong though.
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“More at stake for Witton?”

That, I would suggest, is far from right. You’ve seen the results of the “status quo” option over the last decade. A slow but steady decline. Is there any sign whatsoever that this trend will reverse anytime in the near future? Is that what you really want to see for your club - to wither on the vine?

What we could collectively do is to try at least to build something better that will leave a lasting legacy for the town and the future generations of young people who live in OUR town.

Or do we continue to perpetuate the long-term historic grudges and myopia that have divided our town for decades and lead us to where we are today??
 
James Wood said:
Or do we continue to perpetuate the long-term historic grudges and myopia that have divided our town for decades and lead us to where we are today??
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Our highest league position ever and off the back of a record league home crowd. I'm fine with where we are thanks.

Anyone that thinks a single Northwich side would be any higher than one league up is deluded.
 
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James Wood said:
“More at stake for Witton?”

That, I would suggest, is far from right. You’ve seen the results of the “status quo” option over the last decade. A slow but steady decline. Is there any sign whatsoever that this trend will reverse anytime in the near future? Is that what you really want to see for your club - to wither on the vine?

What we could collectively do is to try at least to build something better that will leave a lasting legacy for the town and the future generations of young people who live in OUR town.

Or do we continue to perpetuate the long-term historic grudges and myopia that have divided our town for decades and lead us to where we are today??
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Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the bigger picture. An amalgamated team makes solid sense in theory - and I think it’ll happen at some stage.

My point was around Witton being the only club with a ground, with control of that absolutely key asset being relinquished - this isn’t a consideration for the other clubs.

A new team would also be called Northwich (and rightly so) but there’s the ‘Witton’ element - 135 years of unbroken history - confined to the archives. I’m sure you can appreciate the emotional angle to this, given your club’s complete existence.

I’m not saying Witton are in great shape, nor that the future looks bright for the club, but I feel the above would be a sticking point for many.

I’d probably watch a unified club eventually, through lack of other options, but we’d probably see plenty of supporters (on both sides) walking away completely. I don’t think it’d fly through the leagues on gates of 500!
 
Mark Riding said:
Our highest league position ever and off the back of a record league home crowd. I'm fine with where we are thanks.

Anyone that thinks a single Northwich side would be any higher than one league up is deluded.
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We’ll count me as being deluded.

But I’m puzzled about exactly why you think this Mark?
 
Witton man said:
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the bigger picture. An amalgamated team makes solid sense in theory - and I think it’ll happen at some stage.

My point was around Witton being the only club with a ground, with control of that absolutely key asset being relinquished - this isn’t a consideration for the other clubs.

A new team would also be called Northwich (and rightly so) but there’s the ‘Witton’ element - 135 years of unbroken history - confined to the archives. I’m sure you can appreciate the emotional angle to this, given your club’s complete existence.

I’m not saying Witton are in great shape, nor that the future looks bright for the club, but I feel the above would be a sticking point for many.

I’d probably watch a unified club eventually, through lack of other options, but we’d probably see plenty of supporters (on both sides) walking away completely. I don’t think it’d fly through the leagues on gates of 500!
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I absolutely get your point in that any ‘joint’ club would, as far as possible, reflect the distinguished history of Vics and Witton.

But I think that your assertion that it would only attract 500 fans is wide of the mark! Set up and marketed well, I think that it ought to be attracting at least four figures.
 
Surely if it were a proper merger, all history would be expunged, name and all?
 
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