Comedy Show
- Thread starter Tony1874
- Start date
- Status
- Aug 4, 2013
- 1,157
- 563
What is happening with JRFC is not uncommon in other areas of business. The rules designed to run (in this case) an efficient football league are JUST being observed by them and manipulated to their advantage. Unfair though it seems it is the rules that will decide what happens not the morality of the situation. That is why all those 'dry' and boring meetings that take place as a new organisation is set up are important and why we should attend AGM's etc and hold the directors to account.
Like Alan I don't blame witton for taking the rent - they would be stupid not to if they need the money. I also think it highly likely that JRFC's time there will be comparatively short because when we are more established and hopefully have gained another promotion then we should be able to afford rent there and witton know there is much more in it for them. It would probably suit both clubs until we get our own ground.
JRFC to Winsford at that point if they're still going? Or Flixton, Droylsden, Lancaster, Penzance, Berwick.......... I could go on!
But won't.
Perhaps to rent from Witton eventually, not in my book, if that time comes then I am afraid that many current 1874 supporters will not be there to watch !!.
- May 21, 2014
- 836
- 486
Purely out of interest Frank but what other options in Northwich would you have? I appreciate that you will want your own ground eventually but having two football stadiums, both attracting 300 odd fans (although appreciate both clubs need to grow), would be ridiculous imo.
- Jun 24, 2013
- 2,883
- 1,815
I take your point about crowd numbers Paul and something all Northwich (Mid-Cheshire if you like ;-)) clubs have to come to terms with to some extent going forward. The days of 600/700/800 + fans on a regular basis (outside the Conference) are now probably behind us all; behind us for one club in particular, as those aspirations of playing at Conference Regional let alone National again will be thwarted due to their inability to meet the league's financial rules. I think we've all got to stay open minded about the future and how *we make it work (* we as in Witton,'74 & the new kids on the block, Barnton).
- May 21, 2014
- 836
- 486
I'm not suggesting Wincham Park would be the long term solution. Just that having two football stadiums in Northwich in this day and age would be bonkers.
- Aug 14, 2013
- 1,896
- 496
Not got a clue why Jim Gannon is there decent manager should be managing alot higher and should not be associating one bit with that club.
I would love to know if any of them actually discuss the financial irregularities or whether they just blithely ignore what's going on. How do they all think the rent and the playing staff are getting paid or do they not care?
40 fans even for a friendly ain't gonna pay the rent and the staff.
40 fans even for a friendly ain't gonna pay the rent and the staff.
- Jun 24, 2013
- 2,883
- 1,815
We've been here before (Winnington Rec as it goes) and were told then as Vics fans (in those days we were) that Northwich Vics was the private concern of James Rushe (his words, I heard them with my own ears) and financial detail was nothing to do with us (although we were welcome to make a monetary contribution if we felt so disposed) ; I expect the same still holds true. Watch, contribute, but don't question.
Hope that clarifies things Kit
- Aug 4, 2013
- 1,157
- 563
Hello, Paul,
The chance to "ground share" with Witton was there before the start of 1874 commencement but not taken up by our Board, due ENTIRELY to the greed of the Witton board who asked for a sum to rent their ground FAR in excess of what could be afforded by us, with the sole intent of using us firmly believing that the silly sum asked would be paid by Thor.
Any sharing with that club will not be to the advantage of 1874 FC.
Looking at the rent (we are told) they are charging JRFC it doesn't seem unreasonable in today's market. Witton don't owe us any favours and, just as we would, they will look to maximise the rent they receive whoever it is from. It would be negotiated somewhere between what they think it's worth and how desperate they are for money and what we can afford and how desperate we are for a ground.
I find all this crap about not trusting someone because of who they support, labelling them and saying we can never work with them etc very childish and rooted in the past when things were very different. We need to look at things more objectively and through more business like eyes.
The fact is non league football is shrinking and being the only team in town hasn't produced any great rewards for witton and, realistically, where do we get bigger crowds from once the novelty has worn off? Local rivalry creates interest and that means both real local teams need to be healthy and playing one another. If they can work together off the pitch then it's a win-win situation. The rivalry in northwich can be quite nasty and I would hope with the new start we have we can be better than that.
I find all this crap about not trusting someone because of who they support, labelling them and saying we can never work with them etc very childish and rooted in the past when things were very different. We need to look at things more objectively and through more business like eyes.
The fact is non league football is shrinking and being the only team in town hasn't produced any great rewards for witton and, realistically, where do we get bigger crowds from once the novelty has worn off? Local rivalry creates interest and that means both real local teams need to be healthy and playing one another. If they can work together off the pitch then it's a win-win situation. The rivalry in northwich can be quite nasty and I would hope with the new start we have we can be better than that.
- May 21, 2014
- 836
- 486
Thanks Frank, fully understand and appreciate your view.
- Aug 4, 2013
- 1,157
- 563
Pete,
"Rivalry can be nasty", when was the friendly hand held out when a cost was given to us initially to rent from Witton ?, negotiations had to be a "two way affair" in the many I have been involved in !!.
Why should a 'friendly' hand that would cost witton money be offered? It's about business profit and loss not friendship. Witton were proved right weren't they? They got a tenant at a higher rent.
My point about the historical nastiness is that we need to move on as both sets of fans can talk forever about who started it. I suspect witton could legitimately ask if we held out the hand of friendship when we blocked their entry into the NPL in the 60's or whether it was just two fingers. You're older than me Frank so you can look even further back and see things they may have done to us but what does it prove now.
We're all football fans in the end and we all need each other.
My point about the historical nastiness is that we need to move on as both sets of fans can talk forever about who started it. I suspect witton could legitimately ask if we held out the hand of friendship when we blocked their entry into the NPL in the 60's or whether it was just two fingers. You're older than me Frank so you can look even further back and see things they may have done to us but what does it prove now.
We're all football fans in the end and we all need each other.
- Jun 24, 2013
- 2,883
- 1,815
I think you make some good points Pete. If the boot were on the other foot and we were the landlords of WP would we look to charge a commercial rent to any potential tenant (and possibly add a bit on top for good measure? ) who want to use the pitch and facilities; I think we all know the answer?
As touched upon previously, the number of uncommitted football watching fans out there grows ever smaller, with sports viewers looking to do so more from their armchair and perhaps not at the traditional 3pm on a Saturday. Neither Witton, 1874 along with Barnton and Lostock can afford to live in commercial tunnel vision in the future. Certainly there is still room for rivalry and all four will look to out do each other on the pitch both in terms of performance and numbers through the turnstiles. Off the pitch however, if we are all to survive, we need to be to adopt a more open minded and commercially savvy approach to working with each other, where it might be deemed to be mutually beneficial. I know that this may not sit well with every forum member and/or terrace fan, but unfortunately it's more and more likely to be the way of the world in future.
) who want to use the pitch and facilities; I think we all know the answer?As touched upon previously, the number of uncommitted football watching fans out there grows ever smaller, with sports viewers looking to do so more from their armchair and perhaps not at the traditional 3pm on a Saturday. Neither Witton, 1874 along with Barnton and Lostock can afford to live in commercial tunnel vision in the future. Certainly there is still room for rivalry and all four will look to out do each other on the pitch both in terms of performance and numbers through the turnstiles. Off the pitch however, if we are all to survive, we need to be to adopt a more open minded and commercially savvy approach to working with each other, where it might be deemed to be mutually beneficial. I know that this may not sit well with every forum member and/or terrace fan, but unfortunately it's more and more likely to be the way of the world in future.
Pete it is true that Vic's and Boston United did try to block Witton and the other Boston from being admitted to the NPL.But that was after Witton had declined to enter it at the formation of the NPL on the advice of the then player manager of Witton Barnes(can not remember his first name) he was an ex Man City player,he said the league would not last long.
- Status