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ARE WITTON IN FREE FALL

Some interesting points on here - so just thought I would add my penny's worth.

Over the past few years (definitely going back to before the Jim Vince era) WAFC seems to implode when faced with major changes. Entering administration, Jim Vince resignation, Sean Tuck, managerial appointments, ground sharing have all see the club thrown into turmoil. We seem to be completely incapable of managing change.

However, throughout all these misfortunes, most of which are self inflicted, we have a club that is more financially stable than it has been for years. Don't forget that when WAFC came out of Administration it had to pay all its debts in order to prevent the ground being sold to pay creditors.

What we now have is a ground that we own - potentially worth £M's based on housing development. Even if we stay where we are we will receive funds from previous land sales that will put us in (or very close to) a debt free position. The social club is starting to perform well, additional sponsorship and revenues from NVFC are all providing a firm base on which to move the club forwards. The most important thing now is to build a team on the pitch that wants to play for WAFC - which is what every supporter craves.

I don't know the financial position of 1874 and I accept its not really any of my business. However, what I would say is that financial step up from paying rent at Winsford to owning your own ground with all the financial risk that entails is huge - hence your decision to stay at Winsford, which again I accept. That said, if you were given the choice of owning your own ground and being debt free or playing at Winsford, which would you really choose?

The morals of the ground share with NVFC have been debated endlessly on both forums, but accepting for the moment that current version of NVFC is a properly constituted and managed club, they are going to play somewhere. I understand that there is an annual review in place in the agreement with WAFC, so we will have to see how that progresses. However if we also accept that WAFC needs to maximise the use of its resources and that 1874 want to stay at Winsford (and manage their financial risks), this continues to leave the door open for NVFC.

So, to answer the question " is WAFC in freefall? " - the answer is clearly no. Would we swap with 1874? Clearly not.

We need to improve the team and that's work in progress. Will we catch NVFC this year - miracles happen but I suspect not. Although it hurts to say it, NVFC have a cracking team that will do well in the league above this one and beyond. That may have more implications for 1874 than you currently may understand.

Enjoy the rest of the season, but don't gloat too much - you never know what's around the corner !!
 
Knutsfordian.

Good points well made and thank you for your input.

I think that the "Elephant in the room" is the source of funding for JRFC and whether it is sustainable or not given its unique nature.

I suspect that JR has little control over "his" football club and it is the mystery investors who run and finance it and no-one least of all 1874 or WAFC know their agenda and I also suspect that once they withdraw their funding that JRFC will disappear overnight.
 
Knutsfordian some of what you say is true,but you seem to have lost your moral compass,although no one knows where Vics money is coming from,doe's it not bother you that no one at the club is prepared to come out and say where.On your forum some of your fans say they are not bothered where it comes from as long as you get it,but that's not they were saying before Vics ground shared with you,is that not hypocritical.As far as our ground share with Winsford we are at ground of people who want us there,we have a very good working relationship with them at a very reasonable rent.The financial position of 1874 is no secret,in the 3 years of our existence we have made a substantial profit on the two full seasons and are heading for the same this season.If anyone should be worried about Vics's success on the field I suggest it should be Witton,you are the one's with falling gates not 1874 our gates are holding up.As for us gloating not so,we are only giving back what we got from certain Witton fans at least it not abusive like Green and White slime and Green and White Scum,that's not gloating or banter.
 
As I said in my post, the morals of the groundshare have been endlessly debated on both forums - and I don't have anything to add to that really. If NVFC are not a properly constituted and financed club then the governance committees of the FA should step in. That they haven't indicates that they are satisfied with NVFC's financial arrangements. Nor have I criticised 1874's financial position. I fully understand that you manage your club in the way that you do for good reasons. I have never implied that the groundshare with Winsford isn't amicable or fair to both teams - I am sure it is. I only observed that its a huge step up from ground renting to ground owning and furthermore by not groundsharing with WAFC, the door is left open for NVFC to be in Northwich. In the long term if this NVFC team fulfils its potential, that may hurt 1874 as much as it does WAFC.

Overall, I was merely answering the question as to whether WAFC is in freefall - and my rationale is that is not the case. There are issues as there are at any football club - but "freefall" ? I don't think so.
 
Knutsfordian ,This topic Are Witton in Freefall was a bit tongue in cheek and applied to matters on the pitch not off it,I'm quite sure the administration of the club is working very hard in the interest of the club,but I still think Witton scored an own goal having Vics there,but that's up to you,time will tell.As far as 1874 leaving the door open ,the fact is we were not prepared to pay what you wanted,and you could not afford to shut it.
 
I enjoy the banter and the wind-ups and wish we could see more but wrapped up with a bit more humour!
It's also good to talk about football in a more serious way on occasions and thanks to Knutsfordian for two good posts. For what it's worth I think WAFC would be stupid not to take the rent from JRFC. It's also worth remembering that the things people have experienced with the last 2 owners of NVFC are replicated throughout football and in many other areas of life. We have to live in the real world. Understandably it remains an extremely emotive subject here because it has stolen the heritage of Vics from the people who have owned it for generations. Don't expect that to change any time soon!!
What I would like to add to the discussion is something many people forget - that for football to flourish it needs to work together at some levels. We all tend to look at how football is locally through the eyes of our own club. However, if we stand back we see that the average crowds from all three teams don't add up to anywhere near a tbousand. We don't have a team within one promotion of the lowest conference league and a much bigger proportion of the local population just aren't interested. We can see some of the best football in the world on our TV's up to 5 days a week.
My experience in helping to set up our Trust is how much more rewarding football is when you meet and get to know other clubs. I do think there is a real risk that if the two real clubs in the town (JRFC exist only until the money source dries up for whatever reason) don't find ways to work together at different levels then local football will continue to decline and that success and failure will be measured merely by who is in the least trouble rather than by what we actually win.
Football as a whole needs promoting locally and the added spice of team rivalry goes on top of that.
It's quite a challenge.
I'll give up at this point as I can't cope with writing more without my fix of humour.;)
 
Has 1890 Wittons forum broke down,nobody post on it?.
 
Do you remember when the first manned spaceship went around the moon and you had to wait for them to reappear - and the tension and anxiety was intense?
The Saturday morning kids matinee when the serial left the hero in mortal danger and you had to back the following week to see what happened next?
The unbearable delay in Strictly Come Dancing when Claudia says "... and in the dance off are..."
Well, Toddy, the fact is the entire readership of the WA forum are waiting with bated breath for YOUR next post so haven't time for themselves!!!!!!!
 
... or hanging around outside the Guardian office waiting for them to post the result of an away game in the window ...
 
How many 1874 "fans" were at Northampton? I've heard quite a few.....
 
Welcome back Paul.No idea ,but I believe there were quite a few 1890 Wittoner's there showing their support for their wealthy tenants.
 
No Paul I was at Winsford with the 262 other 1874's who also did not go.
 
Yes 130 above your last home attendance. Like it or not v*cs fans are still around including some of your own toddy
 
Paul lets wait and see,but under your reasoning how many over your last cup game of 59 was it?.We have time on our side we are the only club of the three running at a profit.
 
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