- Jul 28, 2013
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Of the MPs I think only 9 voted against article 50 when their constituencies voted Leave - hopefully the constituents take note and make them pay the price in the next General election.
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- Thread starter Ben
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Of the MPs I think only 9 voted against article 50 when their constituencies voted Leave - hopefully the constituents take note and make them pay the price in the next General election.
- May 21, 2014
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I think there was 40 odd labour MP's that voted against despite the three line whip? I sort of respect those that represented their constituents, but those that didn't I go back to my point why have MP's if they don't represent the people's wishes. What is the point of them?
- Jul 28, 2013
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Well, they're supposed to represent their constituency. Looks like the 9 that didn't do that mustn't have got the memo!
The SNP were always going to vote against, they essentially only want independence so they're aim really boils down to achieving that, so they were never going to vote in favour of it.
The SNP were always going to vote against, they essentially only want independence so they're aim really boils down to achieving that, so they were never going to vote in favour of it.
- May 21, 2014
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Love the UK and Scotland have always been a big part of it and always should be. The basic principle of "you should never keep voting until you get what you want" is which is what Sturgeon and Salmon want. I'd be surprised if the people of Scotland vote be an Estonia or a Slovenia in the EU in another referendum. But to be honest if that is what they want that's their choice and good luck to them. Again my point is the majority have already voted!!
- Jul 28, 2013
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The latest opinion polls in Scottish imdependence show No is ahead by between 8 - 10%. The same margin as it was the the 2014 referendum.
The reality is Brexit hasn't affected Scotlands Desire for independence. It's all the hot air from the most annoying woman in British politics Nicola Sturgeon. The. Again, it is her job being the leader of a Scottish Nationalist party.
The reality is Brexit hasn't affected Scotlands Desire for independence. It's all the hot air from the most annoying woman in British politics Nicola Sturgeon. The. Again, it is her job being the leader of a Scottish Nationalist party.
- May 21, 2014
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Exactly. I have Scottish friends, clever people, they know very well they aren't too badly done by from Westminster. They just want better like we all do outside London. The Scots probably get around the same deal as we do in the north west if not better than us. I hope Sturgeon and Salmon do another referendum as they will get stuffed again.
- Thread starter
- #107
I think it's great that Scotland is run by a strong and powerful woman politician and a left-wing party. I just wish that she was the leader of the Labour Party, as they may be in a half-decent position.
On the issue of the referendum, I think that if another vote was held, they would vote for independence this time as there will be a lot of Scottish voters angry about the EU referendum. Ultimately, 62% of all Scottish voters voted to remain in the EU, and not only are they being dragged out of the EU against their will, they are also being kicked out of the single market also. Then when the Scottish economy and jobs are hit hard, they'll all be wanting independence. As for opinion polls, well we all know how accurate they are!
So you can hardly blame the SNP for blocking Article 50 as they are acting in the best interests of the Scottish people, just like any MP is who blocked Article 50 because their constituents voted remain. Then the Scots also have to comprehend with Tory governments in Westminster that they don't vote for. If I were a Scot, I'd most likely vote SNP and for independence.
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- Thread starter
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That remains to be seen. We haven't even left the EU yet and a lot more jobs and businesses in Scotland depend on the Single Market than in England.
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- #111
I hope the EU as a project can remain as it will be the Trumps, Le Pen's, Farage's and Putin's of this world that benefit.
They would like nothing more than to see a break-up of an institution that despite its critics has ensured relative peace and prosperity across Europe since its formation. The far-right would then be free to inflict their warped ideology on refugees and Muslims and whoever else, whilst the business and banking elite would just get richer and dodge more taxes and Russia would have a free reign to wage war on their Eastern European neighbours as Europe descends back into a series of unstable nation states.
To May's credit, she doesn't want to see the break-up of the EU which is one thing that distinguishes her hugely from the types of 'politician' I've mentioned.
They would like nothing more than to see a break-up of an institution that despite its critics has ensured relative peace and prosperity across Europe since its formation. The far-right would then be free to inflict their warped ideology on refugees and Muslims and whoever else, whilst the business and banking elite would just get richer and dodge more taxes and Russia would have a free reign to wage war on their Eastern European neighbours as Europe descends back into a series of unstable nation states.
To May's credit, she doesn't want to see the break-up of the EU which is one thing that distinguishes her hugely from the types of 'politician' I've mentioned.
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- Jun 24, 2013
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The EU's mistake was to expand too quickly and too widely and then to try to tie all the diverse economies in the area to a single currency.
Trump's mistake is to act too hastily and to try to govern a large and diverse nation as if it was a corporation.
Sturgeon's mistake is to believe that there is an easy way back into the EU for an independent Scotland.
May's mistake is to believe that her 12-item shopping list speech can become a government white paper and in turn will be nodded through by the 27 EU countries.
But ultimately all will turn on whether these are down to the voters' mistake, or to their canny judgement. Or maybe to the complacency of all those who dismissed the possibility that any of these seismic changes would ever happen.
Trump's mistake is to act too hastily and to try to govern a large and diverse nation as if it was a corporation.
Sturgeon's mistake is to believe that there is an easy way back into the EU for an independent Scotland.
May's mistake is to believe that her 12-item shopping list speech can become a government white paper and in turn will be nodded through by the 27 EU countries.
But ultimately all will turn on whether these are down to the voters' mistake, or to their canny judgement. Or maybe to the complacency of all those who dismissed the possibility that any of these seismic changes would ever happen.
- May 21, 2014
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The problem with that theory is that several months earlier the majority of the Scottish people decided that they wanted to remain part of the United Kingdom in a democratic vote. The result of the EU Referendum would effect the United Kingdom as one, everybody knew that. I'd be amazed if a second referendum brought a result of Scotland sailing into a crumbling EU with no return ever to the UK. That is why Sturgeon and Salmon haven't called it already.
As for wanting Sturgeon to be the leader of the labour party you are joking, right?
- Thread starter
- #114
Paul, Sturgeon made it clear in the SNP's manifesto that if there was a material change to the UK constitution, which is the case with Britain leaving the EU, then there could be the prospect of another referendum. This has only been made stronger by the fact that Scotland comfortably voted to remain in the EU. I also seem to remember all those who campaigned against Scottish Independence saying that voting to remain in the UK would mean Scotland remaining in the EU. Quite clearly... that promise has also been broken.
Ultimately, the SNP exist to campaign for an independent Scotland, just like Plaid Cymru campaign for an independent Wales. Are you saying that UKIP would have just accepted the result of the referendum in the event of an EU remain vote and just gave up on their goal of Britain leaving the EU? Of course they wouldn't have!
And no I'm not joking about Sturgeon making a good leader of the Labour party (although I accept this will never happen). She would do a better job than Jeremy Corbyn, that's for sure!
- Jul 28, 2013
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I think she'd do a worse job than Corbyn.
She has nothing of any interest to say or any substance. The SNPs votes in the the General Election were just a middle finger at Westminster. I imagine most Scotts would quake in their boots at the thought of an Independant Scotland led by Sturgeon.
She has nothing of any interest to say or any substance. The SNPs votes in the the General Election were just a middle finger at Westminster. I imagine most Scotts would quake in their boots at the thought of an Independant Scotland led by Sturgeon.
- May 21, 2014
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Me or you would do a better job than Corbyn!!
As for Scotland we'll agree to disagree hey. They are not too badly done by despite what Sturgeon and Salmon bleat on about. If the SNP keep up with their threats of another referendum/trying to defeat democracy in the UK I think it is only fair that the English, Welsh and Northern Irish should also get to have a say if we actually want them.
Also a point to note on the subject is that the SNP have somehow got 55 more MP's than UKIP despite getting about a quarter of UKIP's vote in the general election! Lol
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- May 21, 2014
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Bang on the money!
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- #118
We'll agree to disagree on Scotland and the SNP.
Good point, one I do agree with you on. I don't like UKIP as a party but this just goes to show the unfairness of the FPTP system. It's the same with the Green Party who had over one million votes but only have one MP representing them. Under the current system, it's designed for the two main parties - the Tories and Labour to get in every time. It's in their interest for this not to change!
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- #119
Your opinion, many Scots would disagree with you and people on the left for that matter. Yes, there was an element of a protest vote in the General Election vote, but looking at the current polls, the SNP will be a dominant force in Scottish politics for years to come. The Tories, Labour and Lib Dems are miles behind. In this context and following the vote to leave the EU, it seems inevitable that one day Scotland will be an independent country.
My thoughts - it's good to see a mainstream, centre-left party with views that I generally agree with governing Scotland and holding the Tories to account in Westminster. Oh how I wish for a centre-left party governing in Westminster! Maybe Labour again one day...