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General Election 2017

Who will you be voting for on June 8th

  • Conservative

    Votes: 15 32.6%

  • Labour

    Votes: 21 45.7%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Green

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Total voters
    46
And before anyone says "where's the evidence?", this was the nadir ...

356F8E4500000578-0-image-a-34_1466328712120.jpg
 
"a few" can infect just as easily as "many", it is merely the effect which is kept under control until it breaks through to a certain level - then the "few" (as already pointed out) become emboldened and no longer talk in hushed terms but rather voice their intolerance openly and loudly
 
You could argue that while the Tories encourage the politics of greed, Labour encourage the politics of envy, neither of which are particularly likeable, but both have an element of hope attached and are infinitely preferable to the politics of hate.
 
"And I stand by my view that those leading that party have over the years done nothing to disabuse those few of their conviction"

UKIP has always expelled those who have said unsavoury things. All parties have them. It's a shame labour don't expel the Anti-Semites in it's party.

It took them a year and massive pressure just to suspend Ken Livingston, and Corbyn couldn't even bring himself to really do anything to tackle Labours shocking Anti-Semitic issues.

But does that mean Labour's an Anti-Semite party? No. It has its fair share of nutters, like all parties.

But this has nothing to do with the point Alan, so don't duck and dive.
 
Alan M said:
intolerance openly and loudly
Click to expand...

So, you are saying that UKIP voters are intolerant? Because that's all you seem to focus on when it comes to them, not the reason why 4 million people voted for them in the last GE.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT.

Yes you said "few", but read every other post you've written about UKIP, its painfully obvious what you think.

What you're doing is the equivalent of someone mentioning that Labour and their voters are anti semitic every time they mention them. Or the equivalent of someone saying that the Lib Dems and their voters are homophobic every time someone mentions the.
 
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I think you have to make some allowances for UKIP as Paul Nuttall, poor man, struggles with coping with the grief of those close friends he lost at Hillsborough and achieving his masters degree. :rolleyes:
 
Sounds like if your not a european union lover you are intolerent and racist, That is a ridiculous conclusion.I have voted UKIP in the past and am neither intolerent or racist i voted UKIP becouse i hate the eu and everything it stands for.
Are all labour voters IRA and other terrorist lovers,No they are not,
 
I am not ducking the issue - it was after all me who raised it.
Short of typing everything in BLOCK CAPITALS (which I don't like doing) I am not sure how I can get you to understand the very simple point that I was making ....

1. UKIP has been around for many many years
2. It has always attracted some people with a racist agenda, both as party members and as supporters at elections. Some of these (if they had been BNP members for example) were excluded from the party - but that stopped them being members but didn't stop them necessarily supporting/voting for UKIP.
3. UKIP's whole set of values is such that it encourages such people (please note, that is values, I am not talking policies - many of which may well appeal to some parts of the electorate, that's entirely up to them to decide).
4. UKIP does nothing (by way of changing the way it expresses its values) to discourage such people.
5. With UKIP's rise to a 'mainstream' status (at least in percentage terms) those people (please note, these are the FEW that I keep referring to, not the many who have voted for UKIP) feel that their racism and bigotry has become mainstream and therefore feel able to express this publicly.
6. UKIP did (and does) little to counter this ugly manifestation within our society (not that it is entirely up to them to do anything, on a societal level)

Get it into your head, please that I did not say (all) UKIP voters were "intolerant". I said there were some who expressed intolerant views loudly and openly. You are the one, Andy, who is resorting to generalisations and stereotypes, and it does nothing to further your argument.

I repeat that I find their values personally unacceptable. That is my personal standpoint and it has absolutely nothing to do with characterising all UKIP voters as inferior or anything else. That would be like saying all who voted to leave the EU are UKIP supporters. They are not. They are at most supporters of one of the policies put forward by UKIP (though even that policy found different forms of expression during the referendum).

I could start to dissect UKIP policies, but to be honest I can't be bothered and I do not see them as a force to be reckoned with in the coming election, because (as already stated) their support has migrated to the Tories. Again, a personal opinion. You are entitled to disagree, but don't bother trying to convince me to think otherwise.

100 Plus: I trust you now also get the message that I am not generalising. And I never mentioned the EU in the context of what I was saying.
 
Alan M said:
I am not ducking the issue - it was after all me who raised it.
Short of typing everything in BLOCK CAPITALS (which I don't like doing) I am not sure how I can get you to understand the very simple point that I was making ....

1. UKIP has been around for many many years
2. It has always attracted some people with a racist agenda, both as party members and as supporters at elections. Some of these (if they had been BNP members for example) were excluded from the party - but that stopped them being members but didn't stop them necessarily supporting/voting for UKIP.
3. UKIP's whole set of values is such that it encourages such people (please note, that is values, I am not talking policies - many of which may well appeal to some parts of the electorate, that's entirely up to them to decide).
4. UKIP does nothing (by way of changing the way it expresses its values) to discourage such people.
5. With UKIP's rise to a 'mainstream' status (at least in percentage terms) those people (please note, these are the FEW that I keep referring to, not the many who have voted for UKIP) feel that their racism and bigotry has become mainstream and therefore feel able to express this publicly.
6. UKIP did (and does) little to counter this ugly manifestation within our society (not that it is entirely up to them to do anything, on a societal level)

Get it into your head, please that I did not say (all) UKIP voters were "intolerant". I said there were some who expressed intolerant views loudly and openly. You are the one, Andy, who is resorting to generalisations and stereotypes, and it does nothing to further your argument.

I repeat that I find their values personally unacceptable. That is my personal standpoint and it has absolutely nothing to do with characterising all UKIP voters as inferior or anything else. That would be like saying all who voted to leave the EU are UKIP supporters. They are not. They are at most supporters of one of the policies put forward by UKIP (though even that policy found different forms of expression during the referendum).

I could start to dissect UKIP policies, but to be honest I can't be bothered and I do not see them as a force to be reckoned with in the coming election, because (as already stated) their support has migrated to the Tories. Again, a personal opinion. You are entitled to disagree, but don't bother trying to convince me to think otherwise.

100 Plus: I trust you now also get the message that I am not generalising. And I never mentioned the EU in the context of what I was saying.
Click to expand...

I know another force not to be reckoned with at this election - labour
 
Alan M said:
I am not ducking the issue - it was after all me who raised it.
Short of typing everything in BLOCK CAPITALS (which I don't like doing) I am not sure how I can get you to understand the very simple point that I was making ....

1. UKIP has been around for many many years
2. It has always attracted some people with a racist agenda, both as party members and as supporters at elections. Some of these (if they had been BNP members for example) were excluded from the party - but that stopped them being members but didn't stop them necessarily supporting/voting for UKIP.
3. UKIP's whole set of values is such that it encourages such people (please note, that is values, I am not talking policies - many of which may well appeal to some parts of the electorate, that's entirely up to them to decide).
4. UKIP does nothing (by way of changing the way it expresses its values) to discourage such people.
5. With UKIP's rise to a 'mainstream' status (at least in percentage terms) those people (please note, these are the FEW that I keep referring to, not the many who have voted for UKIP) feel that their racism and bigotry has become mainstream and therefore feel able to express this publicly.
6. UKIP did (and does) little to counter this ugly manifestation within our society (not that it is entirely up to them to do anything, on a societal level)

Get it into your head, please that I did not say (all) UKIP voters were "intolerant". I said there were some who expressed intolerant views loudly and openly. You are the one, Andy, who is resorting to generalisations and stereotypes, and it does nothing to further your argument.

I repeat that I find their values personally unacceptable. That is my personal standpoint and it has absolutely nothing to do with characterising all UKIP voters as inferior or anything else. That would be like saying all who voted to leave the EU are UKIP supporters. They are not. They are at most supporters of one of the policies put forward by UKIP (though even that policy found different forms of expression during the referendum).

I could start to dissect UKIP policies, but to be honest I can't be bothered and I do not see them as a force to be reckoned with in the coming election, because (as already stated) their support has migrated to the Tories. Again, a personal opinion. You are entitled to disagree, but don't bother trying to convince me to think otherwise.

100 Plus: I trust you now also get the message that I am not generalising. And I never mentioned the EU in the context of what I was saying.
Click to expand...

1. Erm..... ok????

2. And some Anti Semites support Labour. Again, what's your point?

3. Please show me where UKIP has, in your words, "encouraged" anything distasteful?

4. Unlike Labour, UKIP does deal with the 1 or 2 nutters it has.

5. This is the most ridiculous point. You're the one that chooses to focus on just the "few" in an attempt to tarnish all with the same brush. Why don't you also just focus on Labours "Few" Anti-semites? Oh because of course that doesn't suit you when the boots on the other foot does it?

6. What has UKIP actually done that's Ugly? They ran in 2015 on a manifesto of leaving the EU and bringing back Grammar Schools. But of course that Racist isn't it?


All of your Replies Alan have simply proved that point of the article I posted. At not one point you've taken the fact that millions of typical Labour voters have moved over to UKIP, you simply ignore that and simply paint the party as Racists. That's the point. Labours dead and buried if it and it's supporters aren't prepared to look at the rise of UKIP and learn from it, and instead just pour the scorn.
 
OMG
I AM TALKING ABOUT A FEW SUPPORTERS HAVING RACIST VIEWS. I AM NOT PAINTING THE PARTY AS RACIST.
I AM ALSO NOT COMPARING DIFFERENT PARTIES. I AM ALSO TALKING VALUES NOT POLICIES.

Give me strength. If you don't get my point now, I give up trying to make it any clearer.
 
Alan M said:
OMG
I AM TALKING ABOUT A FEW SUPPORTERS HAVING RACIST VIEWS. I AM NOT PAINTING THE PARTY AS RACIST.
I AM ALSO NOT COMPARING DIFFERENT PARTIES. I AM ALSO TALKING VALUES NOT POLICIES.

Give me strength. If you don't get my point now, I give up trying to make it any clearer.
Click to expand...

You are paining the party as racists though Alan.

Have a few days out and re-read your posts and see if you can see it, maybe that would be an idea?

It might not be what your intending, but it's how it's coming across.
 
Alan M said:
OMG
I AM TALKING ABOUT A FEW SUPPORTERS HAVING RACIST VIEWS. I AM NOT PAINTING THE PARTY AS RACIST.
I AM ALSO NOT COMPARING DIFFERENT PARTIES. I AM ALSO TALKING VALUES NOT POLICIES.

Give me strength. If you don't get my point now, I give up trying to make it any clearer.
Click to expand...

"Values"

In other words, an imaginary thing you've imagined because you don't like their policies.

How can you get the feel of "Racist Values" from Grammar schools and leaving the European Union?


Ultimately Alan, I posted about how I think UKIP still have a roll to play, you're the one that started banging on about Racism. If you don't think the party is Racsit, why did you ever bring it up?
 
If you want a bit of Election night fun, take a drink every time Paul Nuttall starts a sentence with "Hang on, Hang on..."
 
Hi Jean said:
You are paining the party as racists though Alan.
... It might not be what your intending, but it's how it's coming across.
Click to expand...

How many times do I need to post that I mean the exact opposite, that I am talking about a few supporters latching on? I have tried five times so far. I have no control over people's interpretation of what I write, all I can do is aim to correct misinterpretation. I can only assume the misinterpretation is deliberate. All based on an initial post which said I would be glad to see the demise of UKIP (which I would) and referring to "a few sad racists amongst their supporters" - words chosen carefully to emphasise that this was not an attempt to tar all UKIP members, voters, supporters with the same ridiculous brush. There was no ambiguity.
 
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