• Hello Guest, You'll need to login or signup to be able to post on here.

BREXIT THE MOVIE

Future generations will be able to travel too and work within the EU if we vote out, why are we so scared of this fact? There are also many people in this country that are really not bothered about travelling to the EU (or anywhere else) like you have, maybe some people do not want the same life experiences that you have had. This isn't a reason for us to give up our sovereignty in this country, is it?
 
Last edited:
Alan M said:
I would also not regard Ryanair as a reason to stay in the EU, as I find that man pretty insufferable, although I will concede that his company's rise has brought about considerable benefits to those flying around Europe on other airlines. And that was a result of European deregulation. Otherwise you'd still be coughing up hundreds of pounds to BA to fly to Paris etc.

In a world where people think nothing of hopping on a plane for a few days away, being in the EU has brought untold little benefits to travellers. I for one have lived and worked in 4 other EU countries since the 70s without any bureaucratic nightmares to negotiate, and frequently nip to various EU locations for work purposes, and there are a few million UK citizens currently living elsewhere in the EU doing just the same. On top of that, young people are able to choose from the whole range of universities and other educational institutions throughout the EU - including taking advantage of free university education in eg the Netherlands and Sweden, thus escaping some of the mountain of debt which university education in the UK can leave you with.

I would like my grandchildren to have the same chances as me to live and work across the EU if they want, and the same chances as my daughter to sample education (and life) in another country. I shall be voting to preserve those opportunities for future generations, rather than worrying about what's in it for me personally, as I've been there, done that and got a drawer full of the t-shirts.

PS. The Irish mistake - and the Greek mistake - was to join the Euro, not to join the EU. That experiment was never going to work with the mix of countries and national economies that were brought into the unified currency regime. It might have stood a chance if they'd stuck to just the major economies, but expecting outposts like Greece, Portugal and Ireland to align their economies without aligning their fiscal policies with the likes of Germany and France was doomed to failure from the start. And even Germany is regretting it because they see that as the strongest economy they are caught between a rock and a hard place - spend a fortune of German taxpayers' money to bale out struggling Euro states, or suffer a massive drop in export earnings and a significant hit to their own economy if those countries exit the Euro and re-establish their own significantly devalued currency.
Click to expand...

You can not have a state with 28 countries and 28 different currencies in it Alan, which is what each country wanted and thankfully we kept ours! Mind boggling theory and you have just summed up why the EU will never work!
 
1. I purposefully avoided any "scaremongering" suggestion that people will not be able to live and work in the EU - of course they will, though with visa restrictions (which I have also lived and worked with) - though if we vote 'out' it will be interesting to see what happens to (a) those UK citizens currently doing so and (b) those EU citizens currently living and working in the UK.

2. The Euro itself was a flawed concept, the difficulties being compounded and highlighted the moment they started trying to insist that new EU members would have to adopt it on joining. There are, however, 19 Euro states, not 28, with the UK, Denmark and Sweden haing opted out and the recent 'accession' countries from eastern Europe not yet having "qualified" (some indeed are purposefully avoiding fulfilling the quaification criteria). While I am not at all in favour of joining the Euro (and it is to Gordon Brown's credit that he withstood all the pressure to join when it was first created), I am in favour of getting the basic facts right. The Euro is not the EU, just as the EU is not Europe.
 
Fair enough! As I've said previously I can see the adavntages of remaining in the EU, and am open to being convinced that we will be better off staying in, but for me they are far outweighed by the advantages of being out of it.

Anyway it's the last I'm saying on the matter! Nice to have a healthy debate and its interesting to hear other peoples views and opinions. A lot more of it to come in the next few weeks....
 
In the MANY Countries of the five Continents I have travelled to in my position as a senior officer of the Korean Veterans Association and discussed the EU over many years, I can only recall a French veteran supporting this attempt to form a "United States of Europe", which clearly is the aim of those who will benefit most from such a venture, All others, including business men, who I have discussed this with see the EU as non favourable to the UK. It is gratifying to have the views of others outside of Europe in support..
Might I point out that the purpose of such visits were for business of the "International Federation of Korean War Veterans Association" and not to discuss the EU !!.

To have the claims of Cameron and Osborne of impending doom if we leave clearly shows just how worried they are that they could be "losing" out in the future scramble for jobs !!.

My claim of "many Countries" can be verified by my three passports to hand.
 
Alan M said:
Like everything, it is unpredictable, I agree.

But I'd lay odds on Cameron not surviving long if he loses this vote, and anyway he has said he'll step down before the next election. With Osborne then tainted with the same 'loser' epithet, his chances of succeeding his next-door neighbour will be dealt a bit of a blow, leaving Johnson and Gove as the frontrunners. Johnson is playing the long game with his conversion to the 'leave' camp.

Mind you, I find the prospect of Osborne as PM equally depressing.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine it? "Mr President Trump Sir, we have Prime Minister Johnson on the hot line for you!" Shudder! It's getting closer by the day peeps!
 
A US of E will never happen. I know of no-one who takes that idea seriously.

Cameron and Osborne are playing what they think is their strong card - the economy. They are just not playing it at all well, and it's time (from an 'in' point of view) that they let some other voices bang on about other aspects of the debate. At the moment it just looks like a Tory v Tory battle and that, I fear, is putting off potential 'in' voters from other political persuasions to the extent that they just won't bother voting at all.

Mind you, I know a few 'out' people who are getting a bit exasperated at the 'out' response to all the economic forecasts of doom and despondency, which seems to consist primarily of repeating the mantra "They are wrong", without backing it up with any concrete forecasts of their own for people to get their teeth into.

It is all becoming rather depressing, hardly a good advert for either side, and certainly not enlightening to the many out there who are seemingly undecided.
 
Frank Fallows said:
To have the claims of Cameron and Osborne of impending doom if we leave clearly shows just how worried they are that they could be "losing" out in the future scramble for jobs !!
Click to expand...

I somehow think that neither multi-millionaire is too bothered about how he's going to pay his next gas bill.
 
Alan M said:
I somehow think that neither multi-millionaire is too bothered about how he's going to pay his next gas bill.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall a Yank movie where the President said " We are Politicians, we lie, we cheat, we scam, that is what is expected of us"

Right on the button !!.
 
Alan M said:
I would like my grandchildren to have the same chances as me to live and work across the EU if they want.
Click to expand...
The way things are going at the moment they may have to work and live abroad because all the immigrants will have our jobs and living in the new houses that the EU have "told" us we must build for them.
If they are "lucky" enough to still be here they will be told they are not allowed to fly the St George flag on the day we are supposed to celebrate our national heritage because it upsets certain religions now residing in our country.
Maybe they can pray for forgiveness in their local church.....oops, sorry mosque!!
And the government will continue to roll over on these issues and many more because they are too busy passing on our money in the millions to other countries in the EU that have shagged up their own economies!, whilst receiving diddly in return except having their pockets lined for doing basically sod all apart from being "yes men".
We used to be a great country that Ruled a large part of the world, now we are just a dumping ground!!
At lest the EU has seen sense now and are letting a affluent country like Turkey in....oh! o_O.
 
I wouldn't believe everything you read in the newspapers. They also have their own agendas.

Unemployment is currently at 5%. Much as I am loathe to defend this government, and much as I recognise that this figure is partly built on zero-hour contracts and "self-employment" which for many brings in little more than a subsistence level of income but keeps them off the statistics, that is pretty close to what economists consider to be technically 'full employment', as there will always be people in the system who have found themselves early out of work (eg late 50s onwards) or who have come out of the education system and not yet found a job (or for many a direction in life - the infamous neets) or are between jobs. The average rate over the past 50 years is around 7.5%, and back in 84 under Thatcher it was 12%.

I am sure the building sector would love to be busy building all the new homes we need in this country. Sadly they are not. Partly because we do not have enough skilled builders, carpenters, electricians etc etc to meet the demand. That's a failing of successive governments trying to convince everyone that the only thing to do is to stay on at school and then go to university, rather than planning properly for apprenticeships etc etc (and funding the training). The result? We had to import builders in 2012 in order to get the Olympics ready. In fact there were so many Polish builders over here working on that (because we didn't have enough of our own) that it put the Euro 2012 stadium building in Poland in jeopardy because there weren't then enough Polish builders in Poland. But none of that was the EU's "fault".

And builders (at least down here) seem far more interested in building for the more expensive end of the market (with greater profits to themselves) than in building houses and flats at the "affordable to the ordinary man" end of the spectrum. Governments both national and local do little to stop this happening. In fact the only thing that Tory governments have done with regard to this end of the housing market is to force councils back in the 80s to flog off all the council housing stock, and then to propose before the last election to force housing associations to do the same. None of that addresses our housing crisis. And none of that comes from the EU either.

Mosques are for Muslims. Muslims come from non-EU countries. In fact most of the Muslims in this country came from Commonwealth countries. Or rather their parents did. Most of them are in fact UK citizens born in this country. Again, not the EU's fault. Or maybe we should exit the Commonwealth too?

It does irritate me when people conflate national political and social problems caused by our own governments' decisions over the decades with problems which can in some way be related to our membership of the EU. And then to see leaving the EU as the panacea for all the things that are wrong with this country, as if it were akin to waving a magic wand and returning us to a golden age when Britannia ruled the waves. Those problems will still be here if we exit.

And before anyone says 'we'll have all the money we give to the EU to deal with it', I've yet to see any credible proposals for investing that half of the gross contribution to the EU budget which is our actual net contribution (you can't spend the rest of it because we don't actually give it to the EU in the first place). The net amount is about 8 billion and a lot of that would get swallowed up replacing the EU farming subsidies for a start. I've also yet to see any political will, particularly from this government, to invest anything into rebuilding this country's economy. It goes against their laissez-faire market-forces approach to all things.

I realise I have no chance persuading those who are determined to vote 'out', but at least it is giving me a platform to explode a few myths. ;)
 
I would have loved to have read all that Alan and yet again let you show everyone how intelligent and superior you like to sound and inferior you like to try and make us feel, but basically you bored the shit out of me after the first papagraph!!
I have many reasons I'm voting out apart from the immigration issue, but unlike you, I don't want to push my personal and political opinions on everyone!!
 
Last edited:
Blackie said:
...
I don't want to push my personal and political opinions on everyone!!
Click to expand...

I thought you had already done that with your previous ill informed rant.

I think Alan is doing a fine and eloquent job of stating his views, in a thread he didn't start either.
 
Frank Fallows said:
Are you sure that the myths are not what you claim, Alan !!
Click to expand...
Pretty much so, yes. I try to deal in facts, based on a bit of independent research. I just feel that (on both sides) there is too much overblown rhetoric. A case of not being able to see the wood for the trees.

Blackie, I am responding to points raised. I have an opinion. I back it up with facts. If you don't like my opinion, fair enough. If my opinion makes you feel somehow inferior, I apologise. But if you don't like the facts there's not a lot I can do about that.

Which is what I told the local UKIP man when he wrote me a letter stating "Could it be that you are influenced by your wife who is a citizen of a foreign EU state?" when I challenged his views. Apart from being unbelievably crass, that question could not be further from the truth, but who am I to get in the way of a good "let's blame the foreigners" story?
 
Phil Bradley said:
I thought you had already done that with your previous ill informed rant.

I think Alan is doing a fine and eloquent job of stating his views, in a thread he didn't start either.
Click to expand...
Why is Blackie's quite correct statement that people have been told they are not allowed to fly the St George's flag here, because it may offend some, an ill informed rant? It is a fact that this has happened on many occasions. An absolutely disgraceful fact in my opinion.

I actually enjoy reading Alan's views and opinions. I don't agree with many of them or that we should remain in the EU but I do respect his view and if the majority decide to stay in then I will respect that too. I am not as interested in the EU as Alan clearly is, for me it is a much simpler scenario. Take back control of our laws, borders and have OUR destiny in OUR own hands. I'd rather be a "little Englander" any day, I want our country back.
 
Last edited:
Vicki my question to you is will you still call Witton the stripeys if you wear green and black stripes as has been suggested? And if so would the EU allow it? :p
 
paul said:
Why is Blackie's quite correct statement that people have been told they are not allowed to fly the St George's flag here, because it may offend some, an ill informed rant? It is a fact that this has happened on many occasions. An absolutely disgraceful fact in my opinion.

I actually enjoy reading Alan's views and opinions. I don't agree with many of them or that we should remain in the EU but I do respect his view and if the majority decide to stay in then I will respect that too. I am not as interested in the EU as Alan clearly is, for me it is a much simpler scenario. Take back control of our laws, borders and have OUR destiny in OUR own hands. I'd rather be a "little Englander" any day, I want our country back.
Click to expand...

What has any local 'ban' on flying St Georges flag got to do with EU membership?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top