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JRFC Aftermath

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In his earlier post Green Lanturn does say that "I could be wrong"

Oh! how wrong can one man be about everything, he makes Col,in look like a genius.
 
Yes, that is pretty twisted and as usual blames everyone else including the victims instead of JR.

Why do they think that JR is in jail if it wasn't for breaking the law or is that a miscarriage of justice as well?

There is definitely a moral vacuum at the heart of JRFC and that is another reason why our Club must have no dealings with them whatsoever.

I seem to remember that the original Green Lantern was an amoral individual who couldn't spell either.
 
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OK then think about this one - How many major Premier, Football league and Non League clubs have been in dubious ownership but write off that period in their history and continue to put their best foot forward? NVFC are in a long list of mismanaged clubs. By continually playing the Jim Rushe card all you do is remind many clubs that "there by the grace of god go I". Your undoubted morality isn't going to get you special treatment. On the contrary it could work against you as you force others to look into the dark periods of their clubs'past which they don't want to re-examine again. Learn to put it by or learn how to deal with the consequences.

We have played 2 clubs recently (Boston and Kettering) who have suffered huge misfortunes. They are rebuilding their clubs and getting on with life. There's a lessons learned piece there somewhere.
 
Knutsfordian, can the families who live with the consequences of drug's put it behind them I think not,or able to put it behind them?.so any club that has had connection to the drug trade should be highlighted,especially when they will still not admit it to themselves never mind anyone else.It's to easy to say the past is the past,it will never be the past to families who have lost loved one's or seen loved one's dragged down,ask the family of that poor girl dead on the floor who's parents permitted the photo of her to be printed in the paper's a few year's ago or the relation's of the chap found dead in the toilet's in Northwich.Tell them it's in the past and let it go,they are just two examples of the consequences of the vile drug trade.
 
Toddy, I would never condone the use or sale of drugs or minimise the impact on the people and their families.

Can you be so certain that some of the miscreants who have been involved in mismanagement at other clubs haven't committed even more serious offences? Yet they still move on - weren't there allegations regarding drugs in other conference clubs a few years back ? Drug affected families have to move on. They have to re-stabilise and re-establish a norm. They don't forget but they go forwards.

There many people involved in selling and taking drugs (even locally) - far too many to count and name. How can you be sure that none of their money (or any other illicit source) has reached the coffers of 1874 and that everyone that walks through the turnstiles has the same conscience as you? Has all the money in the coffers being knowingly raised for use by 1874? Is everyone involved with 1874 so morally perfect that there will never ever be a misdemeanour no matter how small?

This moral burden that 1874 are going to carry around for the rest of their existence will become such a millstone that in future years you will be unable to bare the burden. Far better to recognise that people make mistakes, put governance in place to prevent a repetition and move on. Otherwise I think your piety will lose you friends and may eventually be the cause of the death of your club.
 
Knutsfordian said:
OK then think about this one - How many major Premier, Football league and Non League clubs have been in dubious ownership but write off that period in their history and continue to put their best foot forward? NVFC are in a long list of mismanaged clubs. By continually playing the Jim Rushe card all you do is remind many clubs that "there by the grace of god go i
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You're right other clubs have suffered dubious ownership but it's how their fans react. Chester fans turned their back on Vaughan and had to reform. Wrexham fans united against Hamilton and Guterman took back their club after a high court battle and cleared £700,000 of debt through responsible management. A large number of Vics fans refused to accept Rushe because they knew he was bad news. Those who stood by Rushe did it because they refused to acknowledge what he was about despite it been the worst kept secret in football. As long as results on he pitch were okay then they were happy to bury their heads in the sand. To my mind these people aren't responsible enough to run a football club.

I'm not a Vics or 1874 fan but I know Northwich Vics are tainted in the eyes of football fans throughout this region. Those who stood by Rushe are a disgrace.
 
But those clubs have had to put their troubles where they belonged in the past and move on - do Chester continually bang on about the past misdemeanours or are they more concerned about where they are going?
 
Knutsfordian said:
But those clubs have had to put their troubles where they belonged in the past and move on - do Chester continually bang on about the past misdemeanours or are they more concerned about where they are going?
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They've never forgotten and neither have Wrexham because it's created the soul of their clubs. It's made them who they are today. It just simply comes down to the fact you either stand by a drug dealer or have the guts to go another way. I personal hate drugs and what it is doing to our society. I applaud 1874 for what they've done and wish them ever success.
 
The problem we have is that in a town of 45,000 people there are only a few hundred who really know the full story and will remember it in 10 to 20 years time. Most other people may remember that there was a scandal about an owner but they probably won't even know which club the scandal was associated with.

All they will care about is that such and such a club is doing great or is on match of the day because of a cup run.

The nightmare scenario is that some bloke/group who doesn't know or care about what happened before just recognises the brand 'Northwich Victoria' and invests big time. Whenever I am in other areas of the country and people ask where are you from, the first thing they say is 'oh Northwich Victoria I always remember that on the vidiprinter'. We may be able to promote and remind people locally but beyond that we will never be able to change this reaction from people nationally.
 
Knutsfordian,the Social Committee which I have the honour to be chairman of,probably raise 90 per cent of the off field fund raising,all of this is done by down right hard work and dedication and not a penny raised has come from any drug connection and as long as I am involved and the rest of the committee is never will.Don't judge every body with what happened at your club,you were the one's who took Mr Rushe's money and some of your fan's even said they did not care where it came from,and one even said the end justify mean's.I have jet to see one of you say it was wrong to do so,are you prepared to do that.By the way I'm not a pious person I just know right from wrong do you.
 
Knowingly taking money that is proven to be being laundered for drugs or any type of fraud is illegal and I do not condone such activity in any shape or form. If WAFC had participated in any such activity they would have been prosecuted.

I think David Brown catches the point when he says "Most other people may remember that there was a scandal about an owner but they probably won't even know which club the scandal was associated with". These events do inevitably slide into history. Yes they are a part of a cbub's DNA (like Chester and Wrexham), but clubs do move on and repair themselves. As I posted earlier its your choice........but I would pass on the evangelism.
 
Don't worry, there are a few dedicated people that won't allow the JRFC farce to vanish into history.

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Knutsfordian said:
Knowingly taking money that is proven to be being laundered for drugs or any type of fraud is illegal and I do not condone such activity in any shape or form. If WAFC had participated in any such activity they would have been prosecuted.
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To quote Donald Rumsfeld:
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.":cool:
 
I don't think we are in any position to criticise Witton for taking rent off NVFC as it is not up to them to prove money is 'clean' it is up to other people to prove it isn't. In the difficult financial position they find themselves in we would do exactly the same.
I don't remember many of us giving up on Vics when Connet banned people. I don't remember many of us giving up on Vics as it became obvious what Connet was all about. I don't remember many of giving up on Vics when it was obvious things were 'iffy' under Rushe. I do remember people finally did something when there was no Vics to watch within 20 miles. That's what pushed us into action, not simply some moral outrage about the running of the club.
I've said before no one can accuse me of not standing up against Connet or Rushe and I feel as strongly as anyone about some of those still associated with Vics BUT WE HAVE TO MOVE ON. Our focus should be on gaining maximum positive publicity for us out of Vics discomfort and probable death throes rather than continually putting the boot into a bunch of losers who are more than able to achieve that without our assistance.
 
Sorry Pete being short of money is no excuse for taking Rushe's ,it was an open secret where it came from,and then when they gave notice about the ground share and they had the threat of court action what did they do put up the rent.As for us doing the same I like to think not,if we did I for one would walk away.I agree we should move on from Vics and let then get on with it,they are of no concern to me anymore,and by the way I stopped watching them before they moved 20 miles away.
 
It still wouldn't stand up in court though, and fair do's to Witton they insisted on it being paid through the bank and in the circumstances I don't blame them for taking it given their financial state. There has to be rules and they didn't break any and the risks of 'guilty because there is no smoke without fire' is far greater in the long term.
I also walked away before they moved. St Toddy and St Peter - has a certain ring about it!!
 
Pete I'm not saying it would stand up in court,and I'm not saying they took cash,what I am saying is before Witton did the ground share some of their fan's were commenting on where the money was coming from to fund Vic's,then when the ground share was in place a complete turn around,as far as the bank we all know there are way's round that.I remember being told at one game against Vics the Witton fan's were singing about Vics funding and where it came from.
 
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