Theresa May says 95% of Brexit deal is done

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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Ah yes, some overblown notion that the U.K. - and particularly Engerland - is still a powerful player on the world stage, a concept almost wholly based on the events of over 75 years ago.

Nope the main reason is we don't want to be part of a political and fiscal union designed as a solution to to overcome the threats of a cold war era emanating from events over 75 years ago, which is now well past its sell by date with no real purpose in the modern world.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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Nope the main reason is we don't want to be part of a political and fiscal union designed as a solution to to overcome the threats of a cold war era emanating from events over 75 years ago, which is now well past its sell by date with no real purpose in the modern world.
Odd then that 27 other countries appear to still think that there are benefits to being members.

What do they know that we don’t?

The ‘Little Englander’ syndrome raising it’s very ugly head again I suspect. Demonstrated so clearly by Andrew Brigden’s Tweet on 6 June….
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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So, as opposed to what the ranting raving Mail and Express would have us believe - and which both you and Knutsfordian concurred - it would appear that those nasty, garlic-smelling cheese eating surrender monkeys aren’t being as obstructive to trade between the U.K. and the EU.

So just remind me. Exactly what was the point of leaving?

Ah yes, some overblown notion that the U.K. - and particularly Engerland - is still a powerful player on the world stage, a concept almost wholly based on the events of over 75 years ago.

What are the benefits of remaining?

You’ve never said. You just bleat on about how you hate the United Kingdom, but have never said why the being in a failed political union with 27 other nations is a good idea?
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Odd then that 27 other countries appear to still think that there are benefits to being members.

What do they know that we don’t?

The EU is working like mad to avoid any more members states having a referendum on EU membership through financial and political measures to tie the countries into the EU. However, there are large , and growing, anti EU movements in most members states. Add to that Germany is threatening action against Hungary following their veto on EU measures, so they are definitely not a happy bunch
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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So, as opposed to what the ranting raving Mail and Express would have us believe - and which both you and Knutsfordian concurred - it would appear that those nasty, garlic-smelling cheese eating surrender monkeys aren’t being as obstructive to trade between the U.K. and the EU.

Well, the graph clearly shows that they were, and then quickly stopped when they realised that they were shooting themselves in the foot.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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The EU is working like mad to avoid any more members states having a referendum on EU membership through financial and political measures to tie the countries into the EU. However, there are large , and growing, anti EU movements in most members states. Add to that Germany is threatening action against Hungary following their veto on EU measures, so they are definitely not a happy bunch
Oh change the record will you….

There will always be internal tensions in countries (Jesus we have the T shirt on this one!) and between member states and neighbouring countries. T’was always thus….
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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Well, the graph clearly shows that they were, and then quickly stopped when they realised that they were shooting themselves in the foot.
And when exactly will we realise this? When we’ve shot ourselves in both feet and one arm?
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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Well, the graph clearly shows that they were, and then quickly stopped when they realised that they were shooting themselves in the foot.
Just a reminder that the people saying the Northern Ireland protocol is ridiculous are the same people who negotiated it, signed up to it, fought an election built around it and sold it as an "oven-ready" triumph that would get Brexit done.
🤫
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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Just a reminder that the people saying the Northern Ireland protocol is ridiculous are the same people who negotiated it, signed up to it, fought an election built around it and sold it as an "oven-ready" triumph that would get Brexit done.
🤫
The UK has chosen to leave the EU & become a 3rd country outside the Single Market and are therefore subject to 3rd country rules.

And if those ‘gifted’ individuals who were tasked with negotiating our exit from the EU appear to be a bit surprised by the fact that the EU now want to apply these rules!
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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Outside the single market like the vast majority of the world, you mean.

Only 27 nations out of 200 or so are in it, half of which would leave if they allowed their public to vote in a referendum.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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Outside the single market like the vast majority of the world, you mean.

Only 27 nations out of 200 or so are in it, half of which would leave if they allowed their public to vote in a referendum.
Evidence?
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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The UK has chosen to leave the EU & become a 3rd country outside the Single Market and are therefore subject to 3rd country rules.

And if those ‘gifted’ individuals who were tasked with negotiating our exit from the EU appear to be a bit surprised by the fact that the EU now want to apply these rules!

Absolutely true that the UK chose to leave the EU - and really we should have left without agreeing any withdrawal agreement or treaty. That we didn't was due mainly to the activities of Remainers who were doing all they could to prevent us leaving the EU at all. The consequence is an imperfect compromise agreement that does most of what's required, but not everything. It also includes allowing EU boats access to UK waters in a proportion beyond that originally envisaged by UK negotiators. But a compromise none the less.

Now we have the FTA including the NI protocol signed with the intention that both sides would interpret the agreement in a pragmatic way that would allow the protocol to be implemented with the best interests of the NI/Irish people as its purpose, the EU want to lay down the letter of the law regarding meat products in NI, where the same products have been sold for decades, where standards remain the same and which do not threaten the remainder of the EU's single market. The UK is not trying to use the Protocol as a Trojan Horse to get goods into the single market and the volumes involved would not fulfill any sort of EU-wide demand. This is not the first time that the EU has changed its stance once an agreement has been signed. The original Withdrawal Agreement was accepted by the UK on the promise (made by Tusk) that the UK would be granted a Free Trade deal that subsequently the EU did not then want to honour.

The assumption always seems to be that in these matters, the UK is always on the wrong side of the argument. That's not always the case.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
1,164
435
93
Absolutely true that the UK chose to leave the EU - and really we should have left without agreeing any withdrawal agreement or treaty. That we didn't was due mainly to the activities of Remainers who were doing all they could to prevent us leaving the EU at all. The consequence is an imperfect compromise agreement that does most of what's required, but not everything. It also includes allowing EU boats access to UK waters in a proportion beyond that originally envisaged by UK negotiators. But a compromise none the less.

Now we have the FTA including the NI protocol signed with the intention that both sides would interpret the agreement in a pragmatic way that would allow the protocol to be implemented with the best interests of the NI/Irish people as its purpose, the EU want to lay down the letter of the law regarding meat products in NI, where the same products have been sold for decades, where standards remain the same and which do not threaten the remainder of the EU's single market. The UK is not trying to use the Protocol as a Trojan Horse to get goods into the single market and the volumes involved would not fulfill any sort of EU-wide demand. This is not the first time that the EU has changed its stance once an agreement has been signed. The original Withdrawal Agreement was accepted by the UK on the promise (made by Tusk) that the UK would be granted a Free Trade deal that subsequently the EU did not then want to honour.

The assumption always seems to be that in these matters, the UK is always on the wrong side of the
Absolutely true that the UK chose to leave the EU - and really we should have left without agreeing any withdrawal agreement or treaty. That we didn't was due mainly to the activities of Remainers who were doing all they could to prevent us leaving the EU at all. The consequence is an imperfect compromise agreement that does most of what's required, but not everything. It also includes allowing EU boats access to UK waters in a proportion beyond that originally envisaged by UK negotiators. But a compromise none the less.

Now we have the FTA including the NI protocol signed with the intention that both sides would interpret the agreement in a pragmatic way that would allow the protocol to be implemented with the best interests of the NI/Irish people as its purpose, the EU want to lay down the letter of the law regarding meat products in NI, where the same products have been sold for decades, where standards remain the same and which do not threaten the remainder of the EU's single market. The UK is not trying to use the Protocol as a Trojan Horse to get goods into the single market and the volumes involved would not fulfill any sort of EU-wide demand. This is not the first time that the EU has changed its stance once an agreement has been signed. The original Withdrawal Agreement was accepted by the UK on the promise (made by Tusk) that the UK would be granted a Free Trade deal that subsequently the EU did not then want to honour.

The assumption always seems to be that in these matters, the UK is always on the wrong side of the argument. That's not always the case.
Ah. So it’s all the fault of those nasty Johnny Forriners and nowt to do with us patriotic English….
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Ah. So it’s all the fault of those nasty Johnny Forriners and nowt to do with us patriotic English….

That's not what I said and you know that really !

You treat the EU with a benevolence that you seem unwilling or unable to extend to your own countrymen, which is a shame because often they are more deserving of that than not in my view.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
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That's not what I said and you know that really !

You treat the EU with a benevolence that you seem unwilling or unable to extend to your own countrymen, which is a shame because often they are more deserving of that than not in my view.
Knutsfordian - I have made it clear on this very forum many times before that I believe that the EU is far from perfect - which disparate organisation of its size could ever be?

I also think - and have said - that the EU made a major mistake on not meeting Cameron even quarter way when he wanted to negotiate changes to the arrangements between the U.K. and EU. This precipitated the increasing clamour from the euro sceptics within the Tory party for a referendum and gave more credence to old face and his gang of misfits and Uber right wing English nationalists.

But as for my fellow country people - well I find it difficult to countenance the fact that so many have been duped by a populist party that is packed to the hilt with spivs, liars and those who have a massive interest in maintaining the status quo because it benefits them and their ilk enormously.

You may say - and no doubt you will - that this is in part to the opposition being ineffective. And you may be right. But it depresses me beyond words as to how voters still can’t see Johnson and his ilk for exactly what they are. 😡
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
1,164
435
93
That's not what I said and you know that really !

You treat the EU with a benevolence that you seem unwilling or unable to extend to your own countrymen, which is a shame because often they are more deserving of that than not in my view.
Ah, but you said that I said that Cruddas was a crook, which I did not. So we can both twist the narrative when it suits us can’t we?

You know, we might make good politicians! 😉😂😂
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Knutsfordian - I have made it clear on this very forum many times before that I believe that the EU is far from perfect - which disparate organisation of its size could ever be?

I also think - and have said - that the EU made a major mistake on not meeting Cameron even quarter way when he wanted to negotiate changes to the arrangements between the U.K. and EU. This precipitated the increasing clamour from the euro sceptics within the Tory party for a referendum and gave more credence to old face and his gang of misfits and Uber right wing English nationalists.

But as for my fellow country people - well I find it difficult to countenance the fact that so many have been duped by a populist party that is packed to the hilt with spivs, liars and those who have a massive interest in maintaining the status quo because it benefits them and their ilk enormously.

You may say - and no doubt you will - that this is in part to the opposition being ineffective. And you may be right. But it depresses me beyond words as to how voters still can’t see Johnson and his ilk for exactly what they are. 😡
The EU's treatment of David Cameron was catastrophic in terms of the way that the EU could then be portrayed as non-reformist.

I fail to see how people believe so completely in what the EU is trying to achieve (United States of Europe) and I personally think it now only survives because with the Euro in place it has become "too big to fail" so far. I still think that it will fail, probably when the Germans finally get over their WW2 guilt and decide not to pay for it any longer. That may take another generation, but it is coming slowly but surely.

People are not daft James. You have not likely been blessed with an insight that's devoid in the rest of the population. The conclusion is therefore that Labour are a worse option than the Conservatives. That's what should really depress you. People can also see the real issues with the EU and that is the reason that so many people voted for Brexit. They weren't duped, fed a line, mislead or anything else. Yes there will always be those who waiver, but by and large most people who voted Brexit stand behind their decision along with many who also voted remain and have now changed their minds.

The ongoing relationship with the EU was always going to be fractious. The more we succeed the worse it will get. They cannot abide to see the UK making headway outside of their club. It proves we were right, they need to reform, and their quest for control is based on a false premise that countries inside the club are better off than those outside. It will get no better until Macron bites the dust.
 

James Wood

Too much time on my hands
Jun 1, 2017
1,164
435
93
The EU's treatment of David Cameron was catastrophic in terms of the way that the EU could then be portrayed as non-reformist.

I fail to see how people believe so completely in what the EU is trying to achieve (United States of Europe) and I personally think it now only survives because with the Euro in place it has become "too big to fail" so far. I still think that it will fail, probably when the Germans finally get over their WW2 guilt and decide not to pay for it any longer. That may take another generation, but it is coming slowly but surely.

People are not daft James. You have not likely been blessed with an insight that's devoid in the rest of the population. The conclusion is therefore that Labour are a worse option than the Conservatives. That's what should really depress you. People can also see the real issues with the EU and that is the reason that so many people voted for Brexit. They weren't duped, fed a line, mislead or anything else. Yes there will always be those who waiver, but by and large most people who voted Brexit stand behind their decision along with many who also voted remain and have now changed their minds.

The ongoing relationship with the EU was always going to be fractious. The more we succeed the worse it will get. They cannot abide to see the UK making headway outside of their club. It proves we were right, they need to reform, and their quest for control is based on a false premise that countries inside the club are better off than those outside. It will get no better until Macron bites the dust.
“The more we succeed the worse it will get.”

The latest figures clearly show that we are well behind the curve re our economy bouncing back after the pandemic when compared to many other of our EU and worldwide competitors 😡