Theresa May says 95% of Brexit deal is done

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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Ask the Scottish?
Will be interesting to see IF they became independent, would they (Scotland) have a second referendum on rejoining the EU. The SNP is sticking steadfastly to the result of the 2016 to say Scotland will rejoin the EU, but there is nothing to say that the Scottish people have not/world not change their minds about rejoining the EU when faced with the calamitous impact of having to join the Euro and all the other financial constraints required to meet the EU hurdles to be able to join. Strange how the SNP want another vote on independence, but not on rejoining the EU ??
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Worship? Get real.

What I truly despise is how this country - particularly England - has become a nationalist, jingoistic, narrow minded nation which has an overblown view of its own standing and importance in the world.

And if you don’t think this is the case, then you’ve not read the pages of the right wing media, the guff from the ERG, Tufton Street mafia etc.

Over 17 million people in this country voted to leave the EU. They collectively saw through the EU for what it is - a self protectionist organisation that aspires to become a federal state through self aggrandisement, political and fiscal unification and they decided that's not what they wanted. Even now Remainers seem incapable of grasping that ordinary people can see this entity for what it really is.

I don't think people most people have got an ultra right wing nationalist view of the UK. Pride in the country and its history - yes and yes pride that we still have some capability and self belief and that we have not totally succumbed to the European federalists

No doubt there are ultra right wing nationalists, just has the left has its share of communists, but you cannot tar everyone with the same brush just because the outcome doesn't fit your narrative.

I find it more than strange that so many Remainers seem to want this country not to succeed in the hope that their vain pursuit of rejoining the EU will come about, or at least that project Fear will be vindicated, when what we all need now is the UK to emerge from Covid with a stronger econiomy asap
 
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James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
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Over 17 million people in this country voted to leave the EU. They collectively saw through the EU for what it is - a self protectionist organisation that aspires to become a federal state through self aggrandisement, political and fiscal unification and they decided that's not what they wanted. Even now Remainers seem incapable of grasping that ordinary people can see this entity for what it really is.

I don't think people most people have got an ultra right wing nationalist view of the UK. Pride in the country and its history - yes and yes pride that we still have some capability and self belief and that we have not totally succumbed to the European federalists

No doubt there are ultra right wing nationalists, just has the left has its share of communists, but you cannot tar everyone with the same brush just because the outcome doesn't fit your narrative.

I find it more than strange that so many Remainers seem to want this country not to succeed in the hope that their vain pursuit of rejoining the EU will come about, or at least that project Fear will be vindicated, when what we all need now is the UK to emerge from Covid with a stronger econiomy asap
And many millions voted to remain. 52 / 48 was hardly a ringing endorsement for exiting was it, particularly if the EU was hated by so many ordinary people as you suggest.

Maybe you should step outside of the Tory bubble that is Knutsford now and again? I mean, this was the place who voted in Neil ‘brown paper envelope’ Hamilton on more than one occasion!
 

Phil Bradley

Legend
Aug 1, 2013
389
156
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Holmes Chapel
Over 17 million people in this country voted to leave the EU. They collectively saw through the EU for what it is - a self protectionist organisation that aspires to become a federal state through self aggrandisement, political and fiscal unification and they decided that's not what they wanted. Even now Remainers seem incapable of grasping that ordinary people can see this entity for what it really is.

I don't think people most people have got an ultra right wing nationalist view of the UK. Pride in the country and its history - yes and yes pride that we still have some capability and self belief and that we have not totally succumbed to the European federalists

No doubt there are ultra right wing nationalists, just has the left has its share of communists, but you cannot tar everyone with the same brush just because the outcome doesn't fit your narrative.

I find it more than strange that so many Remainers seem to want this country not to succeed in the hope that their vain pursuit of rejoining the EU will come about, or at least that project Fear will be vindicated, when what we all need now is the UK to emerge from Covid with a stronger econiomy asap
17 million sages or you and 17 million daily mail readers?

Once again all you peddle is anti EU propaganda and conspiracy. You call on national pride and self belief but provide not an iota of tangible benefit.

Sure we want to come out of Covid with a stronger economy, but it's not going to happen, because of brexit. You've told us a number of times there is no economic reason to leave the EU and that if it was based on economic reasons we wouldn't have done it. Make your mind up.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
1,558
873
123
65
17 million sages or you and 17 million daily mail readers?

Once again all you peddle is anti EU propaganda and conspiracy. You call on national pride and self belief but provide not an iota of tangible benefit.

Sure we want to come out of Covid with a stronger economy, but it's not going to happen, because of brexit. You've told us a number of times there is no economic reason to leave the EU and that if it was based on economic reasons we wouldn't have done it. Make your mind up.

But staying in the EU for just the economic benefits wasn't an option was it? The EU will not reform, so it's all in or all out ! The majority of people in this country do not want political and fiscal unification, which is where the EU is heading. No one denies that, So there's the rub. We don't want Brussels, ECJ, Freedom of movement et al - just free trade without all the protectionist crap that being in the EU necessitates. We are now out - so you guys have to make the case to rejoin and all i'm hearing is the same old whining about why we shouldn't have left. But we did !!
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
1,558
873
123
65
And many millions voted to remain. 52 / 48 was hardly a ringing endorsement for exiting was it, particularly if the EU was hated by so many ordinary people as you suggest.

Maybe you should step outside of the Tory bubble that is Knutsford now and again? I mean, this was the place who voted in Neil ‘brown paper envelope’ Hamilton on more than one occasion!
And may be you should have a walk round Leigh or Washington or ............one of the myriad of Labour held seats that voted Leave and then voted Tory !

Your all hanging on to the reasons you didn't win the referendum - but it makes no odds. We are OUT of the EU. You might think it was unfair, based on lies, Leavers were duped etc - but they weren't. We knew what we wanted and now its been delivered. Not perfectly, but we are out and given the massive interventions from the EU, the UK government, Obama, IMF, CBI et al it was a massive achievement in the face of overwhelming odds. DEspite all that pressure people knew what they wanted and voted against the EU. Get a grip and let it go !
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
1,558
873
123
65
Worship? Get real.

What I truly despise is how this country - particularly England - has become a nationalist, jingoistic, narrow minded nation which has an overblown view of its own standing and importance in the world.

And if you don’t think this is the case, then you’ve not read the pages of the right wing media, the guff from the ERG, Tufton Street mafia etc.
and you think we alone have a problem with right wing extremists?

 

Phil Bradley

Legend
Aug 1, 2013
389
156
53
Holmes Chapel
But staying in the EU for just the economic benefits wasn't an option was it? The EU will not reform, so it's all in or all out ! The majority of people in this country do not want political and fiscal unification, which is where the EU is heading. No one denies that, So there's the rub. We don't want Brussels, ECJ, Freedom of movement et al - just free trade without all the protectionist crap that being in the EU necessitates. We are now out - so you guys have to make the case to rejoin and all i'm hearing is the same old whining about why we shouldn't have left. But we did !!
The reasons we shouldn't have left are surely the reasons to rejoin. Your argument is just the usual anti EU conspiracy. We now no longer have freedom of trade and freedom of movement, which in my opinion was a great benefit of our former membership.
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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The single greatest benefit of being in the EU was free trade. That's what people thought they were getting in the 1970's when we joined the EEC - not political union, not fiscal union, not a new law system, not a monolithic EU state, not free movement of peoples.

If you ask people now to give up all those things and pay vast amounts of money to support this hugely wasteful organisation, it will never happen. You will have to come up with a more compelling argument - and so will the SNP if they ever want to persuade the Scots to rejoin.

I cannot believe that any electorate would now sign up to join the EU, knowing what the overall agenda is - and especially when other countries see the UK thrive and survive outside of EU control and the bloc starts to fragment

The single market doesn't survive because of its free trade, it survives because it's protectionist. Putting up all those barriers will eventually kill the market because other countries will trade in markets that go without all the red tape and regulation.
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Summing up from my point of view ...

AZ made a mess of drawing up their contracts, clearly underestimating the teething problems they'd have with manufacture. By the time they had the teething problems with their UK facilities (causing them to have to use their EU facilities to supply the UK in December) they'd already signed their EU contract - so they probably in secret saw this coming this month. Whether they could have done anything to address it before it all blew up, possibly not, given the process of growing/producing the vaccines.

EU were slow to sign contracts, because they spent too long haggling over prices, but individual states signed up to central procurement & distribution - apart from Hungary, who've opted for Russian and now Chinese vaccines instead. France Germany Italy actually wanted to go the independent route but were persuaded in the interests of the poorer states within the EU to agree to join the joint centralised programme. They may have some tinge of regret that they decided to support this route, but in the end there is little point in having everyone vaccinated in a few EU countries and the rest all scrabbling around trying to source and pay for vaccines. It's a global pandemic and requires a global cooperative response, not any form of vaccine nationalism. And someone needs to remember the need to vaccinate the rest of the world, sooner rather than later, to try to prevent yet more variants emerging.

A contract is a contract, regardless of whether one was signed before the other. One contract does not have legal precedence over another where there is a conflict between the two. That works both ways too (so the UK govt would be on equally shaky ground to demand that AZ only supplied UK). Ultimately this was AZ overpromising and underdelivering. (Incidentally, re a comment somewhere above, remember they are part Swedish, so have a foot in the EU camp). This then becomes a commercial contractual dispute between AZ & EU, and the UK govt could have kept out of it until the EU Commission's stupid suggestion that they could use Art 16 of the NI Protocol. Fortunately everyone else across the whole of Europe recognised the stupidity of that suggestion. (Again, as pointed out above, Johnson has not been slow to threaten the same measure, and indeed there was the little matter of the Single Market Bill).

At least now with more vaccine options coming on stream we might avoid such unseemly disputes in the future.
make your own mind up see 1.9

 

Andy

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Jul 28, 2013
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The latest Study shows the AZ vaccine reduces Hospitalisations by 94% just 4 weeks after the first jab.

Macron, the German government and the EU should hang their heads in shame after the fake news/ and anti-vax rhetoric they spread about the AZ vaccine. It has undoubtedly cost lives in Europe.
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
1,558
873
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The latest Study shows the AZ vaccine reduces Hospitalisations by 94% just 4 weeks after the first jab.

Macron, the German government and the EU should hang their heads in shame after the fake news/ and anti-vax rhetoric they spread about the AZ vaccine. It has undoubtedly cost lives in Europe.
Reading this morning that the good burghers of France and Belgium (to name but 2) have been refusing to accept AZ vaccines, preferring to wait for the Pfizer alternative. When major EU democracies get the messaging so badly wrong, is it any wonder the continent is in the mess it is?

It also begs the question that with EU countries so behind the curve in respect of vaccinations, will there be any continental holidays this year? There's a great clamour for holidays to be allowed, but I am not sure that will be in our own hands. With under 18's not vaccinated and being good virus carriers and many at risk Europeans still waiting for a jab, holidays abroad could be some way away
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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Reading this morning that the good burghers of France and Belgium (to name but 2) have been refusing to accept AZ vaccines, preferring to wait for the Pfizer alternative. When major EU democracies get the messaging so badly wrong, is it any wonder the continent is in the mess it is?

It also begs the question that with EU countries so behind the curve in respect of vaccinations, will there be any continental holidays this year? There's a great clamour for holidays to be allowed, but I am not sure that will be in our own hands. With under 18's not vaccinated and being good virus carriers and many at risk Europeans still waiting for a jab, holidays abroad could be some way away

It has been shambolic on the continent.

The fake/ anti-vaccine news spread by EU politicians has lead to people turning down the AZ vaccine. It’s shocking.

 

James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
705
375
73
The reasons we shouldn't have left are surely the reasons to rejoin. Your argument is just the usual anti EU conspiracy. We now no longer have freedom of trade and freedom of movement, which in my opinion was a great benefit of our former membership.
We have a shortage of daffodils too☹️


1614080309741.jpeg
 

Andy

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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to somebody who doesn't understand the difference between fear and risk, this is one example of reality.

I forgot to say well done. It’s been a good few posts since you last called some one a Nazi. Great improvement.