Theresa May says 95% of Brexit deal is done

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Knutsfordian

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And the EU now has something like 140 missions/embassies around the world. This is in addition to all the embassies maintained by each of the 27 member countries !! Just what are they doing that is not being done by nation states? I might be missing something here but why does an international entity (not a country!) need this level of international presence? The costs associated with all this is obscene and of no value - unless you believe the EU has superseded the EU nations that it seeks to represent. So Remainers, justify this extension of foreign policy. Is the EU the East India company in disguise? A new Bonaparte empire in the making? For all those who despise the commonwealth and British history you need to take a closer look what the EU is becoming !

Just when will people wake up to the realisation that the EU isn't a force for good?

Interestingly Russia recently kicked out diplomats from Sweden, Poland and Germany without telling the head of EU Foreign policy who happened to be in Moscow for a visit. The EU have now got their knickers in a twist, with the French demanding there must be some sort of "response" as no doubt the collective pride of the EU Commission has been hurt by the Russians not treating the EU as a sovereign state (which of course it isn't). This goes to the heart of Russia dealing with individual countries as sovereign entities - but with the EU as an organisation, which it is. The EU response will tell a lot about where it sees itself in the hierarchy of nation states.
 

Alan M

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As for benefits - well you could cite not being in the EU the vaccination programme as a starter for 10, our medical agency approving vaccines way before the EU, or the billions we no longer pay them, or the huge covid recovery fund we would have had to pay into, the new trade agreements we wouldn't have been able to sign, Nissan building their new models in Sunderland, City of London benefitting from being free of EU regulation and already seeing new business on the back of that. But its a bit like the war - your not allowed to mention it for fear of gloating

Vaccines is just about the only one of those which has validity - and even then you forget that the MHRA approval was done under EU regulations on emergency approvals (just that most others chose to stick with the EMA route). The billions we no longer pay have been more than gobbled up by the amount the govt has spent getting this far with brexit; almost all the trade agreements signed are rollovers of the deals we had as an EU member, hence why they've been so quick; news last week of financial markets transferring to Amsterdam goes against the idea of CoL finance sector benefitting.

Meanwhile the govt is now counting empty lorries crossing the Channel as evidence that the import/export trade is recovering from initial shocks and Gove and co are forlornly hoping that the deal they negotiated, agreed to, signed and pushed through parliament can be changed already.

But happy fish.
 

Phil Bradley

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I agree it's not life changing, but if it had gone the other way no doubt it would have appeared on this thread as a real negative. You can say the same for most of the issues that are being flagged up with Brexit - that in the grand scheme of things that most of the problems are chaff and of little impact on overall GDP. But that denigrates the people whose businesses and livelihoods are at stake, so we must try and work towards resolving all the issues but also treat these issues even handedly.

As for benefits - well you could cite not being in the EU the vaccination programme as a starter for 10, our medical agency approving vaccines way before the EU, or the billions we no longer pay them, or the huge covid recovery fund we would have had to pay into, the new trade agreements we wouldn't have been able to sign, Nissan building their new models in Sunderland, City of London benefitting from being free of EU regulation and already seeing new business on the back of that. But its a bit like the war - your not allowed to mention it for fear of gloating

The bottom line is though it's not just about the economics. It keeps coming up again and again that if the EU was just about trade we would still be in there. It's all the other nonsense that has resulted in the UK leaving and other countries will too. The row over the vaccine programme shows how frail the EU really is and how the Commission could easily fall apart.
You've already conceded that there is no economic case for brexit, yet here you are claiming the billions of pounds we no longer pay as a benefit.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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You've already conceded that there is no economic case for brexit, yet here you are claiming the billions of pounds we no longer pay as a benefit.
Hold on - your the one who wants to count the economic benefits of Brexit !! I really don't mind. The more I see of what's happening in the EU, the more convinced I am that the UK made the right decision to get out

Watch Brexit Behind closed doors (may be you have already) and watch the sheer arrogance and waste of the EU at work
 
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Phil Bradley

Legend
Aug 1, 2013
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Holmes Chapel
Hold on - your the one who wants to count the economic benefits of Brexit !! I really don't mind. The more I see of what's happening in the EU, the more convinced I am that the UK made the right decision to get out

Watch Brexit Behind closed doors (may be you have already) and watch the sheer arrogance and waste of the EU at work
I'm still waiting for my sovereignty to arrive, maybe it's stuck in customs.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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I'm still waiting for my sovereignty to arrive, maybe it's stuck in customs.
Along with the shell fish probably

As each day passes and we get a step further away from the EU, the more apparent it becomes that leaving was the right decision. I can understand the disappointment for those people who believe in an ideal utopian Europe where all the countries live in peace, harmony and economic balance, but the EU isn't that place. It's what they would have you believe but really It's a fiercely protectionist organisation that is trying to usurp the individual nation states that it now seeks to control and keep in check and subservient to "the project". It looms like Spectre in some 007 film as the baddy whose self belief they are in they right side of history will make it all right in the end. Unfortunately its not a 007 film and the Commission is for real !
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Well we had nigh on 50 years of EU membership, so plenty of time to go.

At the moment the omens are good for Brexit. The EU is facing some huge crisis, with the Euro alone being declared as the greatest financial project failure in history.

With luck both Merkel and Macron will sale off into the sunset, Germany will realise that it cant bankroll the whole of Europe indefinitely, Brussels will get the boot and the EU will revert to the free trading bloc it should have become (and stayed there). One can but hope

Even now some MEPs can't help themselves and want to drag the UK back into the EU indoctrination programme, otherwise known as Erasmus. I just hope the UK government holds its nerve and goes on with the Turing scheme
 

James Wood

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Well we had nigh on 50 years of EU membership, so plenty of time to go.

At the moment the omens are good for Brexit. The EU is facing some huge crisis, with the Euro alone being declared as the greatest financial project failure in history.

With luck both Merkel and Macron will sale off into the sunset, Germany will realise that it cant bankroll the whole of Europe indefinitely, Brussels will get the boot and the EU will revert to the free trading bloc it should have become (and stayed there). One can but hope

Even now some MEPs can't help themselves and want to drag the UK back into the EU indoctrination programme, otherwise known as Erasmus. I just hope the UK government holds its nerve and goes on with the Turing scheme
Ask Andy Simpson whether he was ‘indoctrinated’ when he took advantage of the Erasmus initiative and spent time working and living in Madrid 😡
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Ask Andy Simpson whether he was ‘indoctrinated’ when he took advantage of the Erasmus initiative and spent time working and living in Madrid 😡
 
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James Wood

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Giving it ten years or so must be a real comfort for businesses going down the pan now.
EU membership £11Bn. Serco Test and Trace £22 Bn. Can you list the ways Serco provides double the value of EU membership? 🤫

But clearly very advantageous to the Tory party on their cronies.
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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EU membership £11Bn. Serco Test and Trace £22 Bn. Can you list the ways Serco provides double the value of EU membership? 🤫

But clearly very advantageous to the Tory party on their cronies.
Actually James building a life saving industry for the equivalent of 1 year's EU membership (based on 1% of GDP) is well worth the money

All the rubbish spouted about test, track and trace is now being shown to be just that with a capability to send out 400,000 tests per day now available. A complete industry, including the actual tests themselves, developed from scratch, along with all the logistics and analysis. Now on the verge of being seen as a major success alongside the vaccination programme.

All the spurious arguments about the government's ineffectual response to the pandemic are gradually being knocked over and when seen in the round the government will come out of this pandemic with more credit than some think - or wish them to have.

Yes there have been problems and over 100,000 deaths is a terrible loss, but time will tell why we have been so badly affected and I don't think it will all be attributable to government decisions as some would wish.
 

Andy

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EU membership £11Bn. Serco Test and Trace £22 Bn. Can you list the ways Serco provides double the value of EU membership? 🤫

But clearly very advantageous to the Tory party on their cronies.

As someone who’s had the misfortune of dealing with Test and Trace over the last week. I have to say I’m really impressed. I was expecting a shambles like social media has you believe, but the reality is they were efficient, fast and all the information was clear.


At the end of the day there will be people who just don’t answer the phone. Theeres
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
1,558
873
123
65
Vaccines is just about the only one of those which has validity - and even then you forget that the MHRA approval was done under EU regulations on emergency approvals (just that most others chose to stick with the EMA route). The billions we no longer pay have been more than gobbled up by the amount the govt has spent getting this far with brexit; almost all the trade agreements signed are rollovers of the deals we had as an EU member, hence why they've been so quick; news last week of financial markets transferring to Amsterdam goes against the idea of CoL finance sector benefitting.

Meanwhile the govt is now counting empty lorries crossing the Channel as evidence that the import/export trade is recovering from initial shocks and Gove and co are forlornly hoping that the deal they negotiated, agreed to, signed and pushed through parliament can be changed already.

But happy fish.
Even when the battle is done and the EU standard is lying in the dust, there is still a rearguard action by Remainers to salve EU conscience and pride, At the rate of 1% of GDP we (the UK for us Brexiteers) would be paying £20 billion a year for EU membership, plus guaranteeing EU debt in proportion to our overall proportion of GDP within the EU - so hocked up for billions more. Financially the EU is a mess, with the Euro widely regarded as the biggest financial failure in history. So the bottom line is that whilst we were not in the Euro, we would be propping up the EU financial burden and based on the Withdrawal agreement the EU would have wanted all that cash !!.

The loss of EU share trading is a really good headline - but really amounts to about a £5m loss in tax to the UK government and overall the impact on the City is minimal compared to the overall turnover and the opportunities presented outside of the EU. Yes the EU wants more of CoL business, but it isn't up to it and even now the ECB is trying to reduce the burden on the nearly bankrupt EU banks by allowing IT software to be counted amongst bank realisable assets to show they are capable of withstanding huge insolvency pressures in a crisis. The BoE says this is nonsense and will diverge from EU rules (making UK banks stronger in comparison to EU banks). We also have Italians putting money into German Banks to safe guard their cash in case the Germans revert to the Mark. So overall EU financial services are not in a good place and the CoL will continue to be a safe (non EU) haven for transactions and funds

Trade - the EU really is shooting itself in the foot. There are reports that Brits are turning away from buying EU goods with some 30% fall in EU goods being sold in the UK since Brexit. I accept that that the numbers will probably not straighten up until after the pandemic, but this is not just a UK problem. Anti UK measures imposed by the EU are also hurting EU business and markets so the EU also needs to get its house in order and if Brits don't go abroad this year, it will be carnage in southern European states.

All this hardball nonsense with regard to Northern Ireland will also come to bite the EU hard. If anyone thought that the loyalists would just walk away from the UK into a United Ireland, they need to look hard and long and rethink, votes or majority referendums or not. This EU approach will bring about another civil war in Ireland. There may come a point where the Republicans have a majority in the north, but any attempt to force the Loyalists to join the south will see the re-emergence of armed struggle. Some people think democracy conquers all, but sometimes its bombs and bullets that hold sway. Whilst its very unpalatable to even think it - EU beware ! Barmier thinks he understands Ireland - but in reality I don't think he has a clue what he's messing with. The EU has used Ireland as a bargaining chip and it will bite them.

Irish fish aren't happy
 
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James Wood

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Actually James building a life saving industry for the equivalent of 1 year's EU membership (based on 1% of GDP) is well worth the money

All the rubbish spouted about test, track and trace is now being shown to be just that with a capability to send out 400,000 tests per day now available. A complete industry, including the actual tests themselves, developed from scratch, along with all the logistics and analysis. Now on the verge of being seen as a major success alongside the vaccination programme.

All the spurious arguments about the government's ineffectual response to the pandemic are gradually being knocked over and when seen in the round the government will come out of this pandemic with more credit than some think - or wish them to have.

Yes there have been problems and over 100,000 deaths is a terrible loss, but time will tell why we have been so badly affected and I don't think it will all be attributable to government decisions as some would wish.
Johnson missed the first FIVE Coba meetings on the matter. Not just one, but FIVE. We also had a clear and stark warning of what was coming our way with the events in both Italy and Spain two full weeks ahead of when things started to spiral out of control. The government dillied and dallied, allowed 250000 to mingle at Cheltenham, 3000 Spaniards into Liverpool etc etc.

And yet you don’t think they are accountable or culpable?
 

Andy

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Johnson missed the first FIVE Coba meetings on the matter. Not just one, but FIVE

When a PM isn’t in attendance of a cobra meeting he isn’t in the Dark about it. He knows every single detail about it. It’s a pretty mute point really.

We know you don’t like the government, but not everything is a hysterical conspiracy.

It’s all good in hindsight to say this and that should have been cancelled, but the reality is it was already too little too late. That isn’t the governments fault, nor is it the fault of any of the governments in Europe.

A cover up from the Chinese Communist Party, and incompetence from the WHO in early 2020 meant that Covid spread across the world
 
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James Wood

I Live Here
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When a PM isn’t in attendance of a cobra meeting he isn’t in the Dark about it. He knows every single detail about it. It’s a pretty mute point really.

We know you don’t like the government, but not everything is a hysterical conspiracy.

It’s all good in hindsight to say this and that should have been cancelled, but the reality is it was already too little too late. That isn’t the governments fault, nor is it the fault of any of the governments in Europe.

A cover up from the Chinese Communist Party, and incompetence from the WHO in early 2020 meant Covid spread across the world

A year ago ago today, as Italian politicians met to decide to ban public events and close schools,
@BorisJohnson
was on day 3 of a two week holiday to sort out his private life.

People would die as a result of his and the government’s neglect.

So much for Johnson “knowing every single detail about it”.

If he did, then this makes his and his government’s response to it all the more shocking.

And yes, not everything is a hysterical conspiracy. But if you can’t recognise an absolute and utter incompetence and a massive dereliction of duty on a monumental scale when it is as obvious as the nose on your face then I think that you need to reflect on what the outcome of this was.

Tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths and the tanking of the economy and our public services.

Unfortunately I’m old enough to know that when it comes to the Tories, this is par for the course for them.

#leopardsdontchangetheirspots
#therichgetricherandthepoorgetpoorer
 

James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
705
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Even when the battle is done and the EU standard is lying in the dust, there is still a rearguard action by Remainers to salve EU conscience and pride, At the rate of 1% of GDP we (the UK for us Brexiteers) would be paying £20 billion a year for EU membership, plus guaranteeing EU debt in proportion to our overall proportion of GDP within the EU - so hocked up for billions more. Financially the EU is a mess, with the Euro widely regarded as the biggest financial failure in history. So the bottom line is that whilst we were not in the Euro, we would be propping up the EU financial burden and based on the Withdrawal agreement the EU would have wanted all that cash !!.

The loss of EU share trading is a really good headline - but really amounts to about a £5m loss in tax to the UK government and overall the impact on the City is minimal compared to the overall turnover and the opportunities presented outside of the EU. Yes the EU wants more of CoL business, but it isn't up to it and even now the ECB is trying to reduce the burden on the nearly bankrupt EU banks by allowing IT software to be counted amongst bank realisable assets to show they are capable of withstanding huge insolvency pressures in a crisis. The BoE says this is nonsense and will diverge from EU rules (making UK banks stronger in comparison to EU banks). We also have Italians putting money into German Banks to safe guard their cash in case the Germans revert to the Mark. So overall EU financial services are not in a good place and the CoL will continue to be a safe (non EU) haven for transactions and funds

Trade - the EU really is shooting itself in the foot. There are reports that Brits are turning away from buying EU goods with some 30% fall in EU goods being sold in the UK since Brexit. I accept that that the numbers will probably not straighten up until after the pandemic, but this is not just a UK problem. Anti UK measures imposed by the EU are also hurting EU business and markets so the EU also needs to get its house in order and if Brits don't go abroad this year, it will be carnage in southern European states.

All this hardball nonsense with regard to Northern Ireland will also come to bite the EU hard. If anyone thought that the loyalists would just walk away from the UK into a United Ireland, they need to look hard and long and rethink, votes or majority referendums or not. This EU approach will bring about another civil war in Ireland. There may come a point where the Republicans have a majority in the north, but any attempt to force the Loyalists to join the south will see the re-emergence of armed struggle. Some people think democracy conquers all, but sometimes its bombs and bullets that hold sway. Whilst its very unpalatable to even think it - EU beware ! Barmier thinks he understands Ireland - but in reality I don't think he has a clue what he's messing with. The EU has used Ireland as a bargaining chip and it will bite them.

Irish fish aren't happy
Strange that after slagging off the EU for being remote and unaccountable, the Tories appear to be following suit.
1613607723096.jpeg
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Strange that after slagging off the EU for being remote and unaccountable, the Tories appear to be following suit.
View attachment 2096
Ah so Emily Thornberry wants to bring Liz Truss to the despatch box so that she (Thornberry) can grandstand. The government has fielded the questions and brought other trade ministers in to answer questions, whilst Liz Truss gets on with doing her job of bringing home the bacon in the form of new trade deals, which is more than the lardy Emily Thornberry will ever do. It's just posturing by a Labour front bench with absolutely nothing to shout about. They are falling behind in the polls, Starmer has lost the plot and the Labour left doesn't know where to turn to next. On the other side of the House,, the government is riding the success of the vaccination programme and the anti-Tory, anti-Brexit tide has turned - and the best Labour can do is wave a few flags to try and win back the red wall seats?

If ever Labour needed leadership, now is the time. Complaining about Liz Truss isn't going to cut much ice with either the House or electorate, They need to take on the SNP and get a real strategy. Just listening to Odious Anneliese on LBC right now and its just a load of wooly waffle trotting out the same old crap.
 
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