Theresa May says 95% of Brexit deal is done

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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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The overwhelming response on this forum is that it's all the UK;s fault there isn't a deal. What's happened over the past 4 years?, most of it has been spent stopping Remainers from over throwing the referendum decision. and exalting the EU to work against the democratic mandate of the British people ! The outrageous behaviour of the people in parliament and the civil service working with the EU and against the people's mandate bordered on treason.
The SNP and Labour rebels who voted against the Bill last night have only themselves to blame. They steadfastly refused to accept the referendum decision and they pinned their colours to the mast of a second referendum and lost. Comprehensively lost. Lost to the point where their parties are on the verge of self destruction. If they had accepted the 2016 referendum result and supported Theresa May, they would have been able to secure a stay in the single market and customs union. Because they didn't do that, based on their hatred of the Tories and a failure to accept the result, the consequences are they helped secure a deal which is an abject political failure (in their view) - but that is their fault and their legacy. Remainers need to own that as much as Brexiteers need to own the outcome of this Brexit deal itself. The SNP are so self assured that they will win an Indyref vote that they are hell bent on pushing it through. Given they will be asking Scots to vote for jumping into an even bigger black hole than Brext, I think they will lose and Sturgeon could kill the SNP once and for all. Labour need to accept reality and fight for the Union and win back Scotland based on the hard evisence of the subsidies that come from Westminster

It's early days and experience will take a long time to be truly reflected in public opinion, but when the dust settles I am not sure that the EU will be seen as the panacea some may think it is
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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The SNP and Labour rebels who voted against the Bill last night have only themselves to blame. They steadfastly refused to accept the referendum decision and they pinned their colours to the mast of a second referendum and lost. Comprehensively lost. Lost to the point where their parties are on the verge of self destruction. If they had accepted the 2016 referendum result and supported Theresa May, they would have been able to secure a stay in the single market and customs union. Because they didn't do that, based on their hatred of the Tories and a failure to accept the result, the consequences are they helped secure a deal which is an abject political failure (in their view) - but that is their fault and their legacy. Remainers need to own that as much as Brexiteers need to own the outcome of this Brexit deal itself. The SNP are so self assured that they will win an Indyref vote that they are hell bent on pushing it through. Given they will be asking Scots to vote for jumping into an even bigger black hole than Brext, I think they will lose and Sturgeon could kill the SNP once and for all. Labour need to accept reality and fight for the Union and win back Scotland based on the hard evisence of the subsidies that come from Westminster

It's early days and experience will take a long time to be truly reflected in public opinion, but when the dust settles I am not sure that the EU will be seen as the panacea some may think it is
“Based on their hatred of the Tories.” Well, TBF there is an awful lot to hate....
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
366
270
73
The SNP and Labour rebels who voted against the Bill last night have only themselves to blame. They steadfastly refused to accept the referendum decision and they pinned their colours to the mast of a second referendum and lost. Comprehensively lost. Lost to the point where their parties are on the verge of self destruction. If they had accepted the 2016 referendum result and supported Theresa May, they would have been able to secure a stay in the single market and customs union. Because they didn't do that, based on their hatred of the Tories and a failure to accept the result, the consequences are they helped secure a deal which is an abject political failure (in their view) - but that is their fault and their legacy. Remainers need to own that as much as Brexiteers need to own the outcome of this Brexit deal itself. The SNP are so self assured that they will win an Indyref vote that they are hell bent on pushing it through. Given they will be asking Scots to vote for jumping into an even bigger black hole than Brext, I think they will lose and Sturgeon could kill the SNP once and for all. Labour need to accept reality and fight for the Union and win back Scotland based on the hard evisence of the subsidies that come from Westminster

It's early days and experience will take a long time to be truly reflected in public opinion, but when the dust settles I am not sure that the EU will be seen as the panacea some may think it is
“when the dust settles I am not sure that the EU will be seen as the panacea some may think it is.”

And I share a very similar view about the new ‘Little-Engerlish Empire’ that will come into existence in just over 4 hours time.

But no doubt the usual flagsh***ing
Suspects (Tice, Oakshitt, Rees-Smug, old frog-face and Francois) will be all over the TV and papers tomorrow telling us that we are about to enter a golden age.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Looks like the main broadcasters think Brexit is done and dusted and are putting the pandemic right, left and centre
 

Alan M

Administrator
Forum Staff
Jun 24, 2013
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IDS today: “I wish I was 21 again....as we are now able to go buccaneering, trading & dominate the world”.
That sort of foot-in-mouth will go down well with prospective trading partners.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Yep a strange comment, but probably spoken in respect of wanting to get out into the big wide world and trade rather than recreate a colonial past.

In any event, Happy New Year everyone and may the year be far better than the last !
 
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James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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Yep a strange comment, but probably spoken in respect of wanting to get out into the big wide world and trade rather than recreate a colonial past.

In any event, Happy New Year everyone and may the year be far better than the last !
Oh these Little Englanders will have re-creating the empire on their agenda, have no doubt about that! I mean, they never stop bloody well banging on about WWII and the Commonwealth. So maybe old Frog-face will soon be launching a campaign to re-create The Raj!
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Oh these Little Englanders will have re-creating the empire on their agenda, have no doubt about that! I mean, they never stop bloody well banging on about WWII and the Commonwealth. So maybe old Frog-face will soon be launching a campaign to re-create The Raj!
I wouldn't be too harsh James - we need to get out and sell more, produce more and become more self sufficient. EU policies have destroyed fishing, made agriculture dependent on subsidies, reduced output through quotas to keep up prices and made us totally uncompetitive and unable to fend for ourselves. I am sure we can all point to what used to be local farms, now housing estates, destroyed by milk quotas and similar restrictions. If this pandemic teaches us anything its that an economy reliant on nothing but bars and coffee shops is always going to be in trouble when the going gets tough. The thousands that worked in engineering workshops making machine tools and the like (Lynotype at Altrincham as an example) employed thousands in high skilled well paid jobs. We need to get those jobs back in the UK and bring back the many thousands of skilled IT jobs outsourced and offshored. Its not about being little Englanders, but trying to forge a new direction. Labour bang on about creating a "green" economy, but the bottom line is getting back to making things whether that's wind farms, ship building, steel production etc. British goods using locally produced raw materials and then getting out and selling it. Locally we used to have Octel winning queens awards for exports and ICI whose logo was "world class". Not pretty places to work, but tremendous companies to work for and major exporters.

I know we all take economic forecasts with a pinch of salt, but the bottom line is the right to take your dog on holiday doesn't put food on the table for anyone but the dog. No roaming charges probably costs the average peeps an extra fiver on a holiday costing thousands, the hour spent queuing at the passport control is as nothing compared to the thousands of hours we all spend queuing in traffic. Many of the EU benefits are the equivalent of a free pint once per year, but the costs of being drawn into political and fiscal union are incalculable. Being in control of our own finances and affairs lets us understand how good or bad things are. You wouldn't let your next door neighbours manage your finances, but that what the EU does and more so if you happen to be in the Euro.
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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I wouldn't be too harsh James - we need to get out and sell more, produce more and become more self sufficient. EU policies have destroyed fishing, made agriculture dependent on subsidies, reduced output through quotas to keep up prices and made us totally uncompetitive and unable to fend for ourselves. I am sure we can all point to what used to be local farms, now housing estates, destroyed by milk quotas and similar restrictions. If this pandemic teaches us anything its that an economy reliant on nothing but bars and coffee shops is always going to be in trouble when the going gets tough. The thousands that worked in engineering workshops making machine tools and the like (Lynotype at Altrincham as an example) employed thousands in high skilled well paid jobs. We need to get those jobs back in the UK and bring back the many thousands of skilled IT jobs outsourced and offshored. Its not about being little Englanders, but trying to forge a new direction. Labour bang on about creating a "green" economy, but the bottom line is getting back to making things whether that's wind farms, ship building, steel production etc. British goods using locally produced raw materials and then getting out and selling it. Locally we used to have Octel winning queens awards for exports and ICI whose logo was "world class". Not pretty places to work, but tremendous companies to work for and major exporters.

I know we all take economic forecasts with a pinch of salt, but the bottom line is the right to take your dog on holiday doesn't put food on the table for anyone but the dog. No roaming charges probably costs the average peeps an extra fiver on a holiday costing thousands, the hour spent queuing at the passport control is as nothing compared to the thousands of hours we all spend queuing in traffic. Many of the EU benefits are the equivalent of a free pint once per year, but the costs of being drawn into political and fiscal union are incalculable. Being in control of our own finances and affairs lets us understand how good or bad things are. You wouldn't let your next door neighbours manage your finances, but that what the EU does and more so if you happen to be in the Euro.
You never cease to amaze me. Which party presided over the utter destruction of the U.K. industrial base over the majority of the post war period? Which party presided over the switch from the manufacturing based economy to one based on services and finances? Which party has trashed our public services over the last decade. Which party has been on the vanguard of selling off and outsourcing key parts of our services and in doing so created huge, monolithic, self-serving, inefficient organisations? Train companies being the case in point.
 
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James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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You never cease to amaze me. Which party presided over the utter destruction of the U.K. industrial base over the majority of the post war period? Which party presided over the switch from the manufacturing based economy to one based on services and finances? Which party has trashed our public services over the last decade. Which party has been on the vanguard of selling off and outsourcing key parts of our services and in doing so created huge, monolithic, self-serving, inefficient organisations? Train companies being the case in point.
And I see that this bunch of repugnant charlatans and liars are now trying to take the credit for the abolition of the ‘tampon tax’ - which they blamed on the EU - despite the fact that the Conservative party voted down such a proposal in 2015. Abolished Sure Start centres, voted against keeping Erasmus. The list goes on. What is next? Workers rights? Environmental standards? Food standards? Reintroduction of hunting? Tax breaks and cuts for the rich? More cosy deals with the serial failures in the private sector (Serco, Crapita et al)

Oh those joyous sunlit uplands!! Un🦄 1609549106761.png
 

toddyb

Too much time on my hands
Dec 23, 2014
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Don't forget Thatcher,she is the reason there is a shortage in skilled workers,she destroyedthe apprentice system,and is the reason we need tradesman from abroard.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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You never cease to amaze me. Which party presided over the utter destruction of the U.K. industrial base over the majority of the post war period? Which party presided over the switch from the manufacturing based economy to one based on services and finances? Which party has trashed our public services over the last decade. Which party has been on the vanguard of selling off and outsourcing key parts of our services and in doing so created huge, monolithic, self-serving, inefficient organisations? Train companies being the case in point.
You under estimate the impact of rampant trade unionism during this process that brought this country to a halt at every available opportunity. One of Thatcher's key points was that we didn't reign in the union powers in this country to have them re-enacted within the EU. Massive financial losses within nationalised industries, a failure to reform, EU quotas on steel production, move away from fossil fuels - there's a long list of why some of our major industries failed and Labour and the Trade Unions did little to help. In fact it was so bad that those of us with long memories are still instilled with the worry about the havoc that a left wing Labour government would wreak on this country. That came through loud and clear in the last election. Even to this day there is still a feeling that the Unions are not acting in the best interests of the country, but are self serving and putting obstacles in the way of progress as part of general opposition to government policies. That distrust between government and Unions will never be removed whilst Labour behave like the Unions in opposition and the Unions like Labour in the workplace.
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
366
270
73
And I see that this bunch of repugnant charlatans and liars are now trying to take the credit for the abolition of the ‘tampon tax’ - which they blamed on the EU - despite the fact that the Conservative party voted down such a proposal in 2015. Abolished Sure Start centres, voted against keeping Erasmus. The list goes on. What is next? Workers rights? Environmental standards? Food standards? Reintroduction of hunting? Tax breaks and cuts for the rich? More cosy deals with the serial failures in the private sector (Serco, Crapita et al)

Oh those joyous sunlit uplands!! Un🦄 View attachment 2083
And now Williamson has
You under estimate the impact of rampant trade unionism during this process that brought this country to a halt at every available opportunity. One of Thatcher's key points was that we didn't reign in the union powers in this country to have them re-enacted within the EU. Massive financial losses within nationalised industries, a failure to reform, EU quotas on steel production, move away from fossil fuels - there's a long list of why some of our major industries failed and Labour and the Trade Unions did little to help. In fact it was so bad that those of us with long memories are still instilled with the worry about the havoc that a left wing Labour government would wreak on this country. That came through loud and clear in the last election. Even to this day there is still a feeling that the Unions are not acting in the best interests of the country, but are self serving and putting obstacles in the way of progress as part of general opposition to government policies. That distrust between government and Unions will never be removed whilst Labour behave like the Unions in opposition and the Unions like Labour in the workplace.
Ah, what a thoroughly predictable response.

“It wasn’t our fault guv, we wuz only in charge. It was those nasty trade unions sticking up for the rights of their members and those horrible forriners.”
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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And now Williamson has

Ah, what a thoroughly predictable response.

“It wasn’t our fault guv, we wuz only in charge. It was those nasty trade unions sticking up for the rights of their members and those horrible forriners.”
And as for the TUs being self-serving? Jesus! They have nothing on this bunch of egotistical, jingoistic, incompetent and corrupt charlatans.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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And now Williamson has

Ah, what a thoroughly predictable response.

“It wasn’t our fault guv, we wuz only in charge. It was those nasty trade unions sticking up for the rights of their members and those horrible forriners.”
well ask yourself why have Labour won so few general elections and when they did, Blair didn't repatriate the union rights previously taken away?
 

toddyb

Too much time on my hands
Dec 23, 2014
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You are welcome Knutsfordian by the way what do you mean by erudite you are much to educated for me.