Theresa May says 95% of Brexit deal is done
- Thread starter Joe Reacher
- Start date
Tories at war over Brexit. Two more cabinet resignations, a divided party and no deal likely to get through parliament. What an incompetent shambles this government is. Time for another General Election or second referendum. May has got to go.
Agreed, but the next has to be compiled with complete "LEAVE" supporters and get rid of the treacherous bunch that May had collected around her !!.
Interesting implied definition of 'treacherous'.
I will add my voice to the 'incompetent' camp. And that applies equally to those brexit supporting Conservatives who didn't immediately run away from having to formulate a strategy and make decisions in the complete absence of a viable plan to deliver the various things that people were promised (by them) back in the summer of 2016 ... Johnson, Davis, Raab etc all baled out when it became obvious their fantasies bear no relation to the reality of negotiating an agreement, Gove, Fox. Leadsom etc hang on in the Cabinet but contribute next to nothing by way of bright ideas on a way forward.
Still, every cloud ... - McVey has gone from the DWP.
I will add my voice to the 'incompetent' camp. And that applies equally to those brexit supporting Conservatives who didn't immediately run away from having to formulate a strategy and make decisions in the complete absence of a viable plan to deliver the various things that people were promised (by them) back in the summer of 2016 ... Johnson, Davis, Raab etc all baled out when it became obvious their fantasies bear no relation to the reality of negotiating an agreement, Gove, Fox. Leadsom etc hang on in the Cabinet but contribute next to nothing by way of bright ideas on a way forward.
Still, every cloud ... - McVey has gone from the DWP.
When an attempt to ignore a democratic vote of 17 400 is ignored then surely to me that is a ttreacherous act, or used to be I recall !!. We are not talking about the gutless bunch who did run away but the " Nev Chamberlain" look alike who came back waving a white flag !!.
"Leave the EU" was on the ballot paper. As I understand it, that is what the govt is doing. Aligning the UK in the short-term with the EU is not being "in the EU". To turn the oft-used phrase round - You won, get over it.
There was nothing on the ballot about where to go when we walk through that exit door. Farage said both Norway and Swiss models were good options, Davis said "my preference would be that we remain within the Customs Union", Hannan said "nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", and so on. Now they see the reality of all that leaving involves and these statements get forgotten in an attempt to square the many circles like "control our borders" and "have an open border in Ireland".
As for "we can trade on WTO rules as all other countries do", clearly those that think this are happy to take orders from and abide by the rules of the unelected WTO instead of from the (unelected, they say) EU. Strange logic. I have yet to hear a single politician of any persuasion who seems to understand the WTO. We currently trade with just 24 countries on WTO terms (eg Argentina, Brunei, Cuba ...). All others are covered by trade deals, mostly concluded by the EU - deals which of course we will leave when we leave the EU and therefore have to renegotiate. And the only countries which don't have trade deals with anyone else are North Korea, Algeria and Serbia. Even the oft-quoted Mauritania has just joined the Community of West African States.
As for citizens' rights post-brexit, don't get me started. I have read that section of the WA in detail (pp 16-62 if you are interested), and most of the promises made by the govt in recent months have failed to be converted into clauses in the agreement, leaving EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU still unclear about their future. For me, that aspect is personal, and I object to the prospect of my wife, resident here for 31 years, having to justify and document her right to stay and to pay £62 for the "privilege" if she is accepted.
However, it is everyone's democratic right to speak out and/or campaign against things you don't agree with, from whichever angle you are looking at it. Democracy was not frozen in time in 2016. And this WA will not get through Parliament, so someone had better have a Plan B.
There was nothing on the ballot about where to go when we walk through that exit door. Farage said both Norway and Swiss models were good options, Davis said "my preference would be that we remain within the Customs Union", Hannan said "nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market", and so on. Now they see the reality of all that leaving involves and these statements get forgotten in an attempt to square the many circles like "control our borders" and "have an open border in Ireland".
As for "we can trade on WTO rules as all other countries do", clearly those that think this are happy to take orders from and abide by the rules of the unelected WTO instead of from the (unelected, they say) EU. Strange logic. I have yet to hear a single politician of any persuasion who seems to understand the WTO. We currently trade with just 24 countries on WTO terms (eg Argentina, Brunei, Cuba ...). All others are covered by trade deals, mostly concluded by the EU - deals which of course we will leave when we leave the EU and therefore have to renegotiate. And the only countries which don't have trade deals with anyone else are North Korea, Algeria and Serbia. Even the oft-quoted Mauritania has just joined the Community of West African States.
As for citizens' rights post-brexit, don't get me started. I have read that section of the WA in detail (pp 16-62 if you are interested), and most of the promises made by the govt in recent months have failed to be converted into clauses in the agreement, leaving EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU still unclear about their future. For me, that aspect is personal, and I object to the prospect of my wife, resident here for 31 years, having to justify and document her right to stay and to pay £62 for the "privilege" if she is accepted.
However, it is everyone's democratic right to speak out and/or campaign against things you don't agree with, from whichever angle you are looking at it. Democracy was not frozen in time in 2016. And this WA will not get through Parliament, so someone had better have a Plan B.
as this Brexit seems to be going nowhere .plus the announcement yesterday regarding a shortage of Mars Bars due to a no deal agreement.Surely it is time for radical action and to show a bit of British backbone .INVADE EUROPE as we have done in the past and take it over.Was it not Shakespeare in Henry V act 1V in the St Crispins Day Speech who said about the Europeans " THEY DO NOT LIKE IT UP EM" to horse me-thinks and give Jean Claude Juncker .plus Barnier and his mates a taste of british steel.I have forwarded this message to Theresa May but have yet to receive a reply (typical you try help however I have received a reply from Nigel Farage who says "that's a good idea "
I would just like to add that my dad doesn't speak for me or my brothers. Personally I think to leave the EU is an act of lunacy.
everyone is entitled to an opinion.However I just wish this Govt would stand up for the people of Great Britain and show some of the old British bulldog spirit. that we are known and respected for
Right was aTony says, they have their opinion as I have mine as a " little Englander" who read s the Daily Mail " !!!
Then you will have noticed that even the Mail has cooled its brexit ardour
Had noticed, Alan, but cannot seem to see any sensible points in the in the Mirror !.
Well as someone who has long held views that we should not be in the EU, I always thought the divorce would incur as much wrath and rancour as when we went in, just now aided and abetted by 40 years of pent up frustration and wrapped in 40 years of EU rules and legislation. As bad as the separation may be, it will be as nothing compared to the outcry that will follow any attempt to try and take us back in, for have no doubt that will not be on the terms we left. The EU wants to increase budgets, increase union ties, increase military unification, increase regulation and move ever closer to a united states of Europe model as idolised by Macron recently in his view - to rival the USA and China. The genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in. Despite the EU's overtures to say we would be welcome back, I am not sure. A UK dragged back into the EU with vast numbers of people in opposition does not make for a happy settlement and a harmonious EU and it will only be a matter of time before the ant-EU view becomes resurgent at the ballot box. Remainers - be careful what you wish for. My view is that the democratic process of leaving the EU has to play out for better or for worse - then if it is much worse at some time people will realise and a more settled UK may apply to re-join.
Well after all the votes and backtracking, for the first time I feel we are in real danger of losing Brexit completely. For those that want a second referendum (aka staying in the EU), I think you need to be careful what you wish for. A narrow vote to stay, if enacted, would destroy democracy in the UK so it will not solve the problem of uniting the country. As we are now if the deal is voted down, I can't see why the EU would make it easier to leave because the Commons have said they will not walk away without a deal thereby forcing us to stay. The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be forced back in - so where we go after this i've no idea..........