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Lockdowns

So the government came up with an extra £82 million for Manchester (including track and trace I agree) and then the chancellor steps up with another huge package this afternoon to support people and businesses in Tier 2. Overall, I would say that the government is going as far as it can to provide as much support as it can during this current crisis (and at least as far as all our peers) and yet the odious Annelisee Dodds can't find a supportive word anywhere within her tribal rant to give credit where it is due. At a time when all politicians need to come together and show an example to the people of how problems can be solved by working together, she looks to score cheap points and then gets smacked down anyway after declaring that we need another national lockdown. For all the good work Kier Starmer may have done at PMQs in recent weeks, he and Dodds have thrown it all away in pursuit of the folly of a national lockdown. Bring back Jeremy Corbyn - at least you know where he stood with his class warfare :)
 
So odious Anneliese was back on TV this morning complaining the Chancellor only came to the Commons yesterday to announce the package of measures. Does she think the Chancellor suddenly woke up yesterday and decided to do something? Those measures would have been worked up by the Treasury over the preceding weeks and processes put in place before ever getting to the Commons. Needs a reality check but went unchallenged as normal
 
Knutsfordian said:
Yes I know this is from the Daily Mail, but it comes back to what some of us have been shouting from the rooftops - we need to follow the rules !!!

www.dailymail.co.uk

Coronavirus UK: Stay-at-home orders do NOT stop the spread of Covid-19

Researchers from Edinburgh University studied various intervention measures on the R rate, but found that ordering people to stay at home is a futile move.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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That is such a crap headline - Stay at home orders do stop the spread - If followed.
I'll leave the arguments about the orders to others though
 
Edge said:
That is such a crap headline - Stay at home orders do stop the spread - If followed.
I'll leave the arguments about the orders to others though
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yep quite agree with that. I think we are in the realms of creating headlines to compete for clicks rather than a true version of the real story
 
Knutsfordian said:
Yes I know this is from the Daily Mail, but it comes back to what some of us have been shouting from the rooftops - we need to follow the rules !!!

www.dailymail.co.uk

Coronavirus UK: Stay-at-home orders do NOT stop the spread of Covid-19

Researchers from Edinburgh University studied various intervention measures on the R rate, but found that ordering people to stay at home is a futile move.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
Circa 500 cases a day in July. People encouraged to get back to work, eat out, go on holiday and mix. Number of cases per day now circa 20000. And set to rise.
Risk is that this will again engulf the NHS and have a massive impact on health in general.
I know that it will be so tough I’m so many ways, but if we are to prevent a re-run of the spring we need to follow the example of France and Germany and implement a second lock-down ASAP.
If we don’t, then we face a potential re-run of last spring.
The numbers of deaths will probably be fewer as treatment for the virus has improved as we’ve learned more about it.
But even so, if we don’t act decisively and quickly then I feel it will be a long, bleak, hard and tough winter.
 
James Wood said:
Circa 500 cases a day in July. People encouraged to get back to work, eat out, go on holiday and mix. Number of cases per day now circa 20000. And set to rise.
Risk is that this will again engulf the NHS and have a massive impact on health in general.
I know that it will be so tough I’m so many ways, but if we are to prevent a re-run of the spring we need to follow the example of France and Germany and implement a second lock-down ASAP.
If we don’t, then we face a potential re-run of last spring.
The numbers of deaths will probably be fewer as treatment for the virus has improved as we’ve learned more about it.
But even so, if we don’t act decisively and quickly then I feel it will be a long, bleak, hard and tough winter.
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quite agree James - cases up to 100,000 per day as estimated by one group of researchers. Its already out of hand

For all those who have been banging on about test and trace - it's not the answer - look across Europe and everyone in the same boat. We just need to follow the rules and reduce social interactions !!
 
James Wood said:
Circa 500 cases a day in July. People encouraged to get back to work, eat out, go on holiday and mix. Number of cases per day now circa 20000. And set to rise.
Risk is that this will again engulf the NHS and have a massive impact on health in general.
I know that it will be so tough I’m so many ways, but if we are to prevent a re-run of the spring we need to follow the example of France and Germany and implement a second lock-down ASAP.
If we don’t, then we face a potential re-run of last spring.
The numbers of deaths will probably be fewer as treatment for the virus has improved as we’ve learned more about it.
But even so, if we don’t act decisively and quickly then I feel it will be a long, bleak, hard and tough winter.
Click to expand...

It’s great being back in the office, great eating out and helping local businesses that are struggling, great spending time with friends again.

Cases have been hovering around 20k for a while now. The fraudster Patrick Vallance said we would be at over 110k cases a day by now.

Many European countries going back in to national lockdown, just months after the last one. Should be a good indication that they don’t work.

Over 80% of people hospitalised people have a Vitamin D deficiency. Lockdowns reduces your Vitamin D intake. Not to mention, the stress and isolation of lockdowns weakens your immune system.

McMillan estimate that there have been 50,000 Cancer cases gone undiagnosed due to lockdown. It’s criminal

Worldwide we were told in March we needed to flatten the curve to allow governments to prepare and increase hospital capacity. We upheld our end of the bargain, the worlds leaders didn’t.

2/3s of people testing positive don’t even have symptoms.

I support any measure to protect the vulnerable. I don’t support any measure or anyone who seeks to lock away people who are at no risk.

It’s barbaric to lock away people who are at no risk, and force them to watch their futures be unnessarily destroyed in-front of them.

It’s time for a new approach. Locking up the healthy is about as backwards as it gets.
 
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I just hope they think very carefully before going down the lockdown route and think of the consequences. It delays the spread of the virus but isn’t a cure.
I’m hoping Boris sticks to his guns with the local approach and that work continues to build up test, track and trace, hospital capacity and an effective vaccine so we can get back to some form of normality asap.
 
Ben said:
I just hope they think very carefully before going down the lockdown route and think of the consequences. It delays the spread of the virus but isn’t a cure.
I’m hoping Boris sticks to his guns with the local approach and that work continues to build up test, track and trace, hospital capacity and an effective vaccine so we can get back to some form of normality asap.
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I don't disagree with local lockdowns - I definitely don't want to go back to full lockdowns - but we need people to behave, follow the rules and social distance to ensure that infections are minimised and hospitals not over run. If everyone minimises their social interactions full lockdowns will not be necessary
 
Knutsfordian said:
I don't disagree with local lockdowns - I definitely don't want to go back to full lockdowns - but we need people to behave, follow the rules and social distance to ensure that infections are minimised and hospitals not over run. If everyone minimises their social interactions full lockdowns will not be necessary
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Agreed, anything mirroring the French lockdown would be awful.
The German one is a lot softer, schools and shops remaining open, no travel ban and gatherings of up to 10 people allowed between two households. Some would say that’s more generous than our current local approach.
Local approach makes more sense to me when you’ve got such different infections rates in places such as Liverpool and Cornwall.
 
I know its a real pain in the bum, but if we can get out for an hour and go for a quiet pint, it can make all the difference. I appreciate some people want to see all their mates, but keeping to the rules allows us to have some social life, if not the one we would really choose. The 10pm curfew has been denounced as a nonsense, but its just a way of guiding people to go out early, go home early, don't be with loads of friends and cut down on social activity. Landlords want full pubs, but that can't happen for a while, so make the most of having a beer in a quiet corner and enjoy what we can do !
 
Andy said:
It’s great being back in the office, great eating out and helping local businesses that are struggling, great spending time with friends again.

Cases have been hovering around 20k for a while now. The fraudster Patrick Vallance said we would be at over 110k cases a day by now.

Many European countries going back in to national lockdown, just months after the last one. Should be a good indication that they don’t work.

Over 80% of people hospitalised people have a Vitamin D deficiency. Lockdowns reduces your Vitamin D intake. Not to mention, the stress and isolation of lockdowns weakens your immune system.

McMillan estimate that there have been 50,000 Cancer cases gone undiagnosed due to lockdown. It’s criminal

Worldwide we were told in March we needed to flatten the curve to allow governments to prepare and increase hospital capacity. We upheld our end of the bargain, the worlds leaders didn’t.

2/3s of people testing positive don’t even have symptoms.

I support any measure to protect the vulnerable. I don’t support any measure or anyone who seeks to lock away people who are at no risk.

It’s barbaric to lock away people who are at no risk, and force them to watch their futures be unnessarily destroyed in-front of them.

It’s time for a new approach. Locking up the healthy is about as backwards as it gets.
Click to expand...
FFS! I give up. I really do. IC beds in the NW already near to capacity and we haven’t got anywhere near the combined flu / Covid Peak yet.
But hey ho, lets just bury our heads in the sand like we did earlier this year and wait for the bodies to start to pile up eh? The NHS again becomes wholly focussed on Covid to the exclusion of everything else with a further massive knock-on thousands of others who are waiting for treatment or will be diagnosed with a serious health issue in the next few months.
 
Ben said:
I just hope they think very carefully before going down the lockdown route and think of the consequences. It delays the spread of the virus but isn’t a cure.
I’m hoping Boris sticks to his guns with the local approach and that work continues to build up test, track and trace, hospital capacity and an effective vaccine so we can get back to some form of normality asap.
Click to expand...
Yes Ben. T&T has been such a success hasn’t it? Hospital capacity was supposedly available in the spring but wasn’t used as the elderly were parachuted back into care homes - with disastrous consequences. The only thing that proved successful in dramatically reducing cases was a lockdown. Fully agree that it is not a cure. But if implemented now it will give the NHS a fighting chance of not being overwhelmed this winter, giving people some sort of ‘normal’ Christmas as is possible and hopefully buying time to deploy a vaccine
 
Andy said:
It’s great being back in the office, great eating out and helping local businesses that are struggling, great spending time with friends again.

Cases have been hovering around 20k for a while now. The fraudster Patrick Vallance said we would be at over 110k cases a day by now.

Many European countries going back in to national lockdown, just months after the last one. Should be a good indication that they don’t work.

Over 80% of people hospitalised people have a Vitamin D deficiency. Lockdowns reduces your Vitamin D intake. Not to mention, the stress and isolation of lockdowns weakens your immune system.

McMillan estimate that there have been 50,000 Cancer cases gone undiagnosed due to lockdown. It’s criminal

Worldwide we were told in March we needed to flatten the curve to allow governments to prepare and increase hospital capacity. We upheld our end of the bargain, the worlds leaders didn’t.

2/3s of people testing positive don’t even have symptoms.

I support any measure to protect the vulnerable. I don’t support any measure or anyone who seeks to lock away people who are at no risk.

It’s barbaric to lock away people who are at no risk, and force them to watch their futures be unnessarily destroyed in-front of them.

It’s time for a new approach. Locking up the healthy is about as backwards as it gets.
Click to expand...
FFS! Hovering around 20k a day now you say. But just a few weeks ago
Ben said:
The tide is slowly changing. The Daily Mail have a front page today with a story about 4,000 medical experts and doctors calling for life to return to normal for everyone with the exception of some elderly and vulnerable people. They have called for these groups to be protected while everyone else builds up herd immunity. Good to see some critical media coverage of lockdowns, there has been far too little of that.
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Ah, the Daily Mail. That paragon of responsible, fair, unbiased reporting.
Might I suggest that as a journalist you might be better tuning into R4 Today programme. Far more balanced view than the Rothermere Tory mouthpiece.
 
James Wood said:
FFS! Hovering around 20k a day now you say. But just a few weeks ago

Ah, the Daily Mail. That paragon of responsible, fair, unbiased reporting.
Might I suggest that as a journalist you might be better tuning into R4 Today programme. Far more balanced view than the Rothermere Tory mouthpiece.
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Just taken from the ITV web site.

The Imperial College London study showed infections are doubling every nine days, with a national reproduction number (R) - the spread of infection - estimated at 1.56, compared to 1.16 in the previous round.

The study used data and swab results from 86,000 people between October 16-25, and estimates there are around 96,000 new infections per day.

But the fastest growth rates are now in the South, with the R number in London as high as 2.86.”

But no doubt the Dangerous duo will still be in denial about the real and ever-growing threat that the widely forecast second wave will have on the NHS and it’s ability to cope with it and all the many other things that is has to deal with!

Oh, and I’ve not even mentioned the potential impact that Brexit might have on all the other shit we’ll be dealing with in early 2021
 
James Wood said:
Just taken from the ITV web site.

The Imperial College London study showed infections are doubling every nine days, with a national reproduction number (R) - the spread of infection - estimated at 1.56, compared to 1.16 in the previous round.

The study used data and swab results from 86,000 people between October 16-25, and estimates there are around 96,000 new infections per day.

But the fastest growth rates are now in the South, with the R number in London as high as 2.86.”

But no doubt the Dangerous duo will still be in denial about the real and ever-growing threat that the widely forecast second wave will have on the NHS and it’s ability to cope with it and all the many other things that is has to deal with!

Oh, and I’ve not even mentioned the potential impact that Brexit might have on all the other shit we’ll be dealing with in early 2021
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1604017124364.png
Need I say more?
 
There's no doubt that all the trends are up. but I really wish that the government would add another stat - the estimated number of people to have had Covid. Depending who you believe this number is way over 6 million and increasing at the rate of almost 1 million per week. People may then begin to understand how rampant this is and why we need to keep social distancing in all we do
 
James, please realise people want a new approach, and don’t want to watch “the bodies pile up”

On 8th October, the Guardian told us the North of England would be out of ICU beds in a weeks time. 3 weeks later, no such event occurred. So forgive people for not buying the fear mongering.

2/3s of infected people aren’t even showing symptoms (likely even high as majority of symptomless people obviously aren’t going to get a test as far as they know they’re fine)

You can’t control a virus when a majority of people don’t even know they have it.

That’s the point an increasing number of people are making. Protect the few people that this virus is dangerous to. The virus could be here for a few years. Destroy your economy and you destroy any chance you have of actually being able to protect the vulnerable.
 
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