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Lockdowns

Strange how the Scottish Government can host a Burns night and whisky tasting event for EU ambassadors in the lockdown when no one else can go out for a pint eh? And strange how its not got any media attention? Wonder why that is with our pro sturgeon media?

So its not OK for Boris to go to Scotland as that breaks the rules, but it is OK for the Scottish Government to host a drinks event during the lockdown. That sturgeon halo is slipping........
 
And despite the lack of media attention you know all about this meeting @Knutsfordian
How can that be? Unless of course you were in attendance.
 
I see that both Germany and France have now lined up to question the effectiveness of the Oxford vaccine, despite our own and their medical regulator approving it.

Such dangerous anti-science misinformation that really undermines public health messaging on this. The EU really are in a huff about the fact Britain’s vaccination programme is miles ahead. I really think they’ve behaved in a quite shameful way.

And now they’ve introduced controls on vaccine exports to Northern Ireland. If there’s one good thing about Brexit, it’s vaccines!
 
Ben said:
And now they’ve introduced controls on vaccine exports to Northern Ireland. If there’s one good thing about Brexit, it’s vaccines!
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a wicked organisation
 
Andy said:
a wicked organisation
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Dreadful to publicly shame a company who are doing their best to save lives.

It really does appear to be a case of vaccine nationalism and the EU kicking their toys out of the pram because they’re way behind on the vaccination programme.

Countries should be working together in what is a global pandemic but the EUs hostile behaviour is making that difficult. It will also hamper the vaccination programmes and cost lives. All the hot air is coming from the EU side. Real bully boy anti-British tactics going on here from the EU!

I speak as someone who voted remain.
 
Ben said:
Dreadful to publicly shame a company who are doing their best to save lives.

It really does appear to be a case of vaccine nationalism and the EU kicking their toys out of the pram because they’re way behind on the vaccination programme.

Countries should be working together in what is a global pandemic but the EUs hostile behaviour is making that difficult. It will also hamper the vaccination programmes and cost lives. All the hot air is coming from the EU side. Real bully boy anti-British tactics going on here from the EU!

I speak as someone who voted remain.
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I know it’s off topic for this thread, but this very well could be the beginning of the end of the EU.

France have an election approaching, Le Pen is polling well. The longer the EUs disastrous vaccine program goes on, the higher they will climb in the polls.
 
Andy said:
I know it’s off topic for this thread, but this very well could be the beginning of the end of the EU.

France have an election approaching, Le Pen is polling well. The longer the EUs disastrous vaccine program goes on, the higher they will climb in the polls.
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well hurrah for the fascists in France. Must be music to your ears.
 
Phil Bradley said:
well hurrah for the fascists in France. Must be music to your ears.
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I think what Andy was trying to say is stunts from the EU like we saw last night are a gift to the Brexit and far right cause.

There is no doubt that Macron’s comments were wrong about the vaccine and the EUs decision on Northern Ireland, hence their quick about turn on the issue.

The EU doesn’t do itself any favours behaving in this way.
 
Andy said:
They are far right yes.

But that’s not what you said, you said the rise of fascism would be “music to my ears”

A ridiculous comment from a rude man.
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Do you really think fascism ended when Hitler blew his brains out?
 
Phil Bradley said:
Do you really think fascism ended when Hitler blew his brains out?
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Again, that’s not what you said, or what anyone said.

You said that the rise of facism would be “music to my ears”

You accused me supporting facism.

Unacceptable
 
Andy said:
Again, that’s not what you said, or what anyone said.

You said that the rise of facism would be “music to my ears”

You accused me supporting facism.

Unacceptable
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Well you side with them, Farage, Bannon, at al. You gloat at their success.
 
Phil Bradley said:
Well you side with them, Farage, Bannon, at al. You gloat at their success.
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Hold on !! - let's have some sense here. Farage et al are not fascists !! You may disagree with what they say, they may be right of centre, they may be anti EU - but they are not Fascist. We all need to be really careful labelling people in the way that is too often the case these days. Agree to disagree, but calling people out as Nazi or Fascist is completely out of order. ,
 
Knutsfordian said:
Hold on !! - let's have some sense here. Farage et al are not fascists !! You may disagree with what they say, they may be right of centre, they may be anti EU - but they are not Fascist. We all need to be really careful labelling people in the way that is too often the case these days. Agree to disagree, but calling people out as Nazi or Fascist is completely out of order. ,
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I suggest you research Farage's background.
 
I think part of the problem is that for many brexiters too many issues are viewed throught the lens of brexit. The EU was not being anti-British (or anti Northern Irish either, to incude them in that alleged sentiment). They were being pro-EU, acting (albeit rather heavy handedly and in relation to NI misguidedly) in their eyes in the interests of their citizens. I suspect that if the situation were reversed we might do the same (and indeed the UK already has an embargo on the export of various medicines used in the treatment of Covid19). That is not anti-EU, it is pro-UK. Whether it is a good policy can be debated elsewhere. The EU measure applies to all non-EU, but of course we only see that it applies to us (leading to some to think it is "aimed at" us.

Lockdowns ... ultimately it will depend on how quickly the numbers in hospital fall, rather than on whether enough over 70s have been vaccinated. Particularly as currently the average age of those in hospital has shrunk dramatically in the past month or so, with (to me) fairly alarming numbers of people in their 30s and 40s in ICU.

In my view, if the new vaccines announced in the past few days are approved and come on stream in sufficient quantity (noting the problems AZ have had first in starting their UK supply and now in doing the ame with their EU supply), then perhaps it will be possible to increase vaccination rates sufficiently to reach the 15 million by 15 February target (although of course that is just the first dose, so not fully vaccinated). In the five weeks so far we have got just over half way.

Also in my view, perhaps then a case could be made for adjusting the vaccination criteria to include occupational considerations. Currently I as an ex-teacher am in line to be vaccinated before serving teachers, and personally I'd rather wait and give my place in the queue to someone who is still enclosed in a small often poorly ventilated space with up to 30+ children aged anything from 5 to 18 for 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Apart from anything else, getting schools back to being fully open (as opposed to "opening schools", as they are already open) is supposed to be (and quite rightly) one of this government's main priorities, and having teachers exposed to a virus which can force them to be absent from school (ill or isolating) is only going to lead to schools having to close down classes due to lack of staff.

If by 15 Feb all the top 4 target groups have had their first dose, then maybe expansion of supply can allow occupations such as teachers to get a vaccination alongside the age-related groups. Even if not, with just short of a million teaching staff, even inserting all of them into the queue in one go could see them all dealt with in 2-3 days, meaning the age-group people would only be 'pushed back' 2-3 days. Some people (who obviously can't do the maths) seem to think that inserting an occupational group like this would delay everyone else by weeks or even months.

Getting schools fully operational is still of course going to involve risks, not only because the children mingle and take the virus home with them to continue to spread it to family and friends, but also because you can guarantee that parents will again start congregating at the school gates with the same results.

I am sure similar cases could be made for other groups of working people too, though whether even a government so fixated on getting the economy going will think things through like this I don't know. Then again, the JCVI is supposedly independent of government.
 
I think changing the JCVI advice is fraught with danger as it risks valuing one group of workers above another. Teachers will have their covid risks addressed through the existing programme - as will every other group. How can you place teachers above policemen or supermarket workers. So whilst I might accept personally being vaccinated later than teachers, does that then mean behind, policemen, taxi drivers, bus driver etc and can you realistically make that decision on behalf of everyone? I think not
 
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