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General Election 2017

Who will you be voting for on June 8th

  • Conservative

    Votes: 15 32.6%
  • Labour

    Votes: 21 45.7%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Green

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
    46
Alan has moved on with those arguments, but is merely using it to illustrate the point that all politicians of all hues will make statements which are at best ambiguous. Your comment "knew the figure was probably exaggerated" merely underlines my point. ;)
You have not moved on at all!! You are behind the likes of Gina Miller, Farron, Campbell et all who will never accept the result of a democratic vote and continue to try to frustrate the will of the majority! Absolutely appalling form in my book!
 
You have not moved on at all!! You are behind the likes of Gina Miller, Farron, Campbell et all who will never accept the result of a democratic vote and continue to try to frustrate the will of the majority! Absolutely appalling form in my book!
Oh I forgot the lovely Mr Blair too. I wonder if he will still get his EU pension once we've left :greedy:finger (finger is at Mr Blair Alan not you btw)
 
oh how little you know me
Labour supporter - Tick
EU Remainer - Tick
Former V*cs fan - Tick
1874 fan - Tick

Despite the above I would enjoy having a pint with you one day Alan. I sincerely respect your knowledge on both local and world wide issues and I learn much from reading your posts. Don't agree with it all the time but I often do.
 
Yet where on the Labour spectrum am I, and where on the Remain spectrum? If you have learnt anything from reading my posts you would not align me with any attempts to dispute the result of the EU Referendum, merely with attempts to define how "Leave" should look in practice. Nor would you equate such things with being "undemocratic" - the whole point of a democracy is that people can express their views and after a vote do not have to simply applaud all opposing views. Or do you also want me to cheer from the sidelines at all other Conservative policies, simply because they have formed the government? That sounds like a recipe for a one-party state to me.

I am not suggesting a re-run of the referendum, or even of the referendum debate, but it does strike me as odd that so many Leave campaigners are vehemently opposed to the mere idea of putting the final deal as negotiated to the people to decide. So much for taking back control - take it but then relinquish it again to whoever happens to be in government at the time.

I will repeat something I said earlier - this whole negotiation should be a cross-party negotiation, rather than being led by one faction within the Conservative Party (while other factions seem intent on competing to promote alternative scenarios). At least then there would be the necessary internal negotiations and compromise on a final position before presenting a united front to the other 27 states, rather than the chaos we have at the moment.
 
No matter what Corbyn promised, if May had managed even a half decent campaign she would have got the majority she wanted. May was the main reason for the swing, not Corbyn.

Not so sure. To say it was all down to May is to completely neglect the anger many people are feeling about this current government. Yes, I voted Labour because I detest May, but also because I genuinely believe in Labour (Corbyn's vision) for Britain. He offers hope that the Tories don't. I think there were a combination of factors which determined the swing and why the Tories lost their majority.

1) Corbyn and Labour ran a very effective campaign backed by Momentum, using social media well and appealing to the youth vote with their tuition fees promise but also their general vision for an alternative to austerity and a fairer society where those at the top aren't always favoured over those at the bottom. Corbyn is also a genuinely likeable person who people really do see as the "man of the people" and understanding your typical person on the street.

2) An anti-Brexit protest vote against May and her 'hard Brexit' outside the single market. This lost May the backing of moderate Tories while those who voted remain overwhelmingly went for Labour with the Lib Dems still very much in disarray after the previous elections and the tuition fees fiasco and their coalition with the Tories.

3) Theresa May - a hopeless campaign with a threadbare manifesto and a number of policy u-turns.

The test for the Tories now is how they respond to their disappointing election result. The signs so far aren't good with Labour topping all but one voting intention polls, with voters distrusting their deal with the DUP, May's Brexit vision, and her continuing refusal to reverse austerity and the unfair 1% pay cap on public sector workers. Under May's leadership and with some of the wild Brexiters in her cabinet, it would seem that the Tories are in huge danger of veering to the loony right occupied by the likes of Rees-Mogg. That, combined with a disastrous Brexit, would be a sure way to ensure that Labour get in next time.

Me personally. I sense a genuine shift to the left and am feeling quite optimistic about Labour's chances as things stand.
 
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When discussing the present Tory party I am reminded of the words of Winston Churchill when asked about Stanley Baldwin, he replied "He put party before his country"
 
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Ben, a message I cannot really argue with from you. Quite retrained!
Something people of your age either do not understand or choose to forget is that Corbyn's policies have been tried in the past and been so popular with the voters that the labour party never got two ruling majorities in a row. They were either kicked out at the second time or got such a small majority the government was toppled. The Attlee government led to "13 years of tory mis-rule" (as labour called it at the time) and the Callaghan government (which was not very left wing as I recall) led to Maggie Thatcher. The only labour government which got consistently re-elected was that of Tony Blair (who I despise as much as Maggie).
I have always been a liberal (not a liberal democrat) and hate the way we tend to lurch from left to right in this country. I believe that there is a lot to be said for centrist government without the excesses and have for years believed in PR as a result. It has not been unknown in the past for us to have the ridiculous position of one of the 2 main parties getting less votes than the other but still getting more seats because of our system. However, one thing we should be proud of in this country is that most of us accept the results of elections, however much we may personally deplore the result, and just get on with life.
 
Good to see that Corbyns history of support for Venezuelas Socilist government is catching up with him.

Venezuelans live in awful conditions, and have done for a long time and the media has largely ignored this humanitarian crisis caused by socialist policies close to corbyns heart.

Quick recap of their year

Venezuela, 2017.

GDP growth: -7%
Inflation: 600%
Interest rate: 21.9%
Govt budget balance: -20% of GDP

Some studies suggest that in average Venezuelans have lost 9kgs as they can't afford to eat, or even access food.

Time Labour ousted the idiot that believes in these policies and elect a real leader.
 
They’ve always been a nasty group, just the bigger they get the more people are realising.

Sending death threats to the handful of Labour MPs that stood up against Anti-Semitism. Shocking really.
 
I remember posting on here somewhere what a sinister group they were, can’t find it though.

Been impressed with our Labour MP though, very proactive on local issues.
 
Admittedly, I've not seen anything on the news about death threats, but clearly if it's true, this is totally unacceptable and they should be kicked out of the Labour Party and face police action.

As for anti-semitism, the leadership need to do more to outright condemn it for the vile racism it is that has no place in our society. I'm very clear that the Labour Party is not an anti-semitic party, but rather one that stands for equality and human rights and against all forms of racism.

Sadly though, there is a small element of the party, mainly on the hard left, that hold anti-semitic views and they need rooting out. I'm thinking for instance of the Labour Party candidate for a council (can't remember which one) who shared a link to a Holocaust hoax website. Clearly this is disgusting and the candidate needs booting out of the party.

As a Labour Party member it does make me sad to see this and the leadership need to do everything they can to condemn the evil that is anti- semitism.
 
Is the whole party not now ‘hard-left’, Ben? Momentum have no respect for any moderate Labour MP and actively seek to have them deselected.
 
Sadly, I think the hard-left are starting to get a grip on the party, whether it's Len McCluskey and Unite or elements of the Momentum movement.

I still wouldn't call all Labour members hard left or all those in Momentum. The parliamentary party certainly aren't . So Labour for me broadly remains a centre-left party and I hope it stays that way.

There is an unsavoury element on the hard left though who hate all things Tory and who criticise and threaten to deselect anyone who may criticise Jeremy Corbyn. I was confronted by the Twitter mob last week for tweeting some criticism of Corbyn's decision to sack Smith for backing a second EU referendum, I was subsequently called a Tory and told to do one from the Labour Party (swearing was used). And a certain Mr George Galloway joined in (pretty sure it's his account).

So I got a taste of the hard-left mob and it isn't nice. I'm someone who sees myself as a moderate, centre-left Labour voter. If that makes me a Tory, then they can think that.
 
In June last year I wrote ..................................Pre social media "Disgruntled from Tatton" could fire off a letter to the Editor about the total disgrace of some socialist from Manchester being elected to Parliament and may (if he was lucky) have the delight of seeing his diatribe go to print. But that was pretty much the end of any protests until the next time. Now social media provides an unending opportunity for opposition, discontent, malcontent, democracy deniers etc. It will be interesting to see how much the new platforms change the political landscape. This was probably the first general election where social media has been more important than the hard print and TV media. It could become a worrying trend whereby the outcome of elections comes secondary to the aftermath deluge of protest and change driven through continual harassment by pressure groups who don't accept the electoral verdict. A subject for PHD students for years to come I have no doubt, but one that the electoral commission needs to evaluate urgently as its becoming more bigger than the voting process itself.

..................and was told "get over it its democracy". I believe the sentiments in this post now more than ever.
 
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We may well have another GE the way things are going. Today may be the start of the unravelling of this government and even Brexit itself.
So two cabinet ministers resign over Brexit. Not only is Brexit in disarray but so is this government. Once again the issue of the EU is tearing the Tories apart! The EU must be laughing at us. About time Labour were given a chance. They can't do worse.
 
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