General Election 2017

[Alan M]

Housing crisis, what housing crisis?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-40686211

 

[Kit]

What people are failing to report about education, and I don't know why the Tories aren't banging on about it, is the unbelievable rise in standards. The work children are now attempting and achieving in is incredible. We are creating a generation of confident and able children who are going to be brilliant assets to the country in 10 years time.

I also not that Labour are now admitting that their promises around tuition fees were unaffordable, unattainable and would have cost £100 billion alone. Remember during the election when they were telling us all their proposals would cost 80billion? Try multiplying that by 10 and you'd be close.

 

[Andy]

Corbyn is now claiming he never said he'd abolish student debt.

Unbelievable. The way he happly lied and MANIPULATED young people is honestly shocking.

 

[Ben]

I watched Corbyn's interview on Andrew Marr this morning.

My understanding is he said Labour never committed to abolishing existing student debt during the election campaign, which is a different thing to his pledge to abolish tuition fees.

So I fail to see where Corbyn has lied or manipulated any young person.

 

[Kit]

He let people believe it, I spoke to a number of people who thought exactly that!

 

[Ben]

He said he would look at ways to reduce the debt burden and to lengthen the period in which existing debt is paid back.

As far as I can see, Corbyn never specifically said he'd abolish all existing student debt because Labour as a party recognise that would be costly and difficult to implement.

So I think it's a case of more Tory lies and manipulation with a bit of help and spin from their friends in the right-wing press. That is what I find shocking and unbelievable.

 

[Andy]

He knew exactly what he was doing, Ben.

 

[Kit]

The whole Labour Party manifesto was an 'ambition', but the promise everything to everyone strategy soon would have fallen apart once in government. Nothing was costed and a number of financial institutes are now saying just the basics of what he promised would have cost over three times what he said. That is more than just 'taxing the richest a little more'.
It's also interesting to see Corbyn's views on Brexit, he would have to follow a hard Brexit line to have the freedom to initiate his uncosted socialist agenda.
I have to say Ben, looking back through this thread, I find your comments about Momentum hilarious. If you think they offer a 'kinder' way of politics you know nothing about them. The intolerance shown by this group of anyone that has different beliefs to them is astonishing and they are even trying to hound out moderate labour MPs.

 

[Andy]

Momentum are just about the most hatefilled, spiteful group in U.K. Politics.

And if your manifesto is simply filled with "Ambitions" rather than actually policies, how can it be full costed as they claimed every 32 seconds?

 

[Alan M]

He let people believe it, I spoke to a number of people who thought exactly that!

Of course he did, that's what all politicians do with all policy statements - they put something out which can be interpreted far more favourably than the reality and then go with the flow. See the most famous example of recent times, the £350 million NHS bus.
Sadly it merely goes to show that too many people (on all sides) take their politics from sound bites and read into things what they want to read into them, usually from summaries and postings on social media or articles in the press. Those who bothered to read the primary sources would not, on the whole, make those mistakes.

 

[Kit]

I take all that, but it's now generally accepted that his tactic was to offer everything to everybody; he didn't have a clue how much it would all cost. Clearly still doesn't. It's set a precedent more than ever that you just have to offer it and don't worry whether you can deliver it until after the election. It's cheapened politics even more, if that's possible.

 

[Andy]

It is cheap politics. Labours further Left supporters hated the cheap politics that Blair and Campbell pushed, but Corbyn is by a mile pushing cheap politics far more

 

[paul]

From recollection Corbyn said that he would make tuition free for all. He did not say that he would write off student debt entirely. Its a very similar situation to Brexiteers saying 350M will be saved for the NHS when we leave the EU. It won't be, but some of the 350M will be.

Utter bollocks from politicians of all parties nowadays, just go for the one that appeals to you most I would say. That's what I do anyway.

 

[Andy]

 

[David Brown]

Best thing is to have a mix of governments over time to to balance each other out. My feeling is that for every three parliaments you should have two conservative governments followed by one labour government.

Basically, conservative governments to get the economy back on track after labour governments have over spent as they always do and every now and then a labour government to do a bit of over spending after a lack of investment by conservative governments.

This seems to work over time provided we get governments that are not too extreme right or left and happy to fight for the middle ground.

Unfortunately, Corbyn is a lunatic who would ruin this country and send us back to the 70's, this would require an extreme conservative government to put it right which would cause much pain but need to be done. We don't want a rerun of the 70s and 80s really. Problem is the young vote for Corbyn because they haven't experienced anything like the 70s and 80s and like the ideals. Most people grow out of socialism as they get older and get more realistic and pragmatic.

 

[paul]

Best thing is to have a mix of governments over time to to balance each other out. My feeling is that for every three parliaments you should have two conservative governments followed by one labour government.

Basically, conservative governments to get the economy back on track after labour governments have over spent as they always do and every now and then a labour government to do a bit of over spending after a lack of investment by conservative governments.

This seems to work over time provided we get governments that are not too extreme right or left and happy to fight for the middle ground.

Unfortunately, Corbyn is a lunatic who would ruin this country and send us back to the 70's, this would require an extreme conservative government to put it right which would cause much pain but need to be done. We don't want a rerun of the 70s and 80s really. Problem is the young vote for Corbyn because they haven't experienced anything like the 70s and 80s and like the ideals. Most people grow out of socialism as they get older and get more realistic and pragmatic.

Nail on head David. Excellent post.

 

[Kit]

Paul, a number of Labour MPs were tweeting about wiping out student debt right before the Election. If labour had got in we all would have found it had been the most dishonest manifesto in history, because it just wasn't deliverable.

 

[paul]

Paul, a number of Labour MPs were tweeting about wiping out student debt right before the Election. If labour had got in we all would have found it had been the most dishonest manifesto in history, because it just wasn't deliverable.

That is exactly why I didn't vote for them.

 

[Frank Fallows]

Me also, talk about claims re figures on a Bus !!.

 

[Ben]

I have to say Ben, looking back through this thread, I find your comments about Momentum hilarious. If you think they offer a 'kinder' way of politics you know nothing about them. The intolerance shown by this group of anyone that has different beliefs to them is astonishing and they are even trying to hound out moderate labour MPs.

I think you're making a big generalisation there. Of course, there is a minority of people in Momentum who are as unsavoury as you mention and they need to be kicked out of the Labour Party. That said, to brand a whole movement comprising of thousands of members as 'intolerant' is unfair. I can think of far more unsavoury movements such as EDL and Britain First, so I'd much sooner a group like Momentum than the racist thugs of the far-right.

I know a few people who are part of Momentum and they say that the vast majority are mainly made up of younger people wanting a different, kinder type of politics as I said and they believe Corbyn offers that. This certainly played out during the election and in Labour's success, where Momentum proved to be a very effective campaigning force, especially on the social media and certainly engaged young people to go out and vote Labour.

Currently, it would appear they're winning the argument, despite the many anti-Corbyn posts on this thread. Since the election, Labour have topped all but 1 of the 12 voting intention polls. Plus Labour got in round Weaver Vale.