Football in Northwich
- Thread starter James Wood
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- Dec 18, 2014
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yes they do have a supporters group
- Dec 11, 2015
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And there is the problem in a nutshell.
To many existing hardcore 1874, Witton & Vics fans it is a decent level but to the rest of the population of Northwich and surrounding areas it absolutely isn’t and never will be. So who is going to turn up to watch these three football clubs in 20 years time? Where are the next generation of fans coming from?
You would have thought that a single Northwich Albion club in the town would be able sustain a Conference/ NPL status which provides the possibility of decent of FA cup runs / FA trophy runs and ability to attract fans etc….at the current level there are theee teams who have no hope of an FA cup run of old, sre not attracting new fans and I fear will dissappear into insignificance because they are competing with each other at a level that doesnt interest anyone but the fans who attend now.
A lot of current fans of all three would hate a merge because of they have invested emotionally and dedicated their efforts into their club for years. It is understandable BUT a merge can not change history the history of all clubs will be there forever but a more selfless attitude towards a merge would IMO ensure that there is continued history to be made for the next generation of fans in Northwich.
- Jun 24, 2013
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I would hope that our junior teams would provide the next generation.
I'd also argue that 1874/Witton & Vics combined average gate is about 600-700 & so might be a stretch to be sustainable in the conference. Then again a well run could well survive in the Conf North.
It's a debate worth having
I'd also argue that 1874/Witton & Vics combined average gate is about 600-700 & so might be a stretch to be sustainable in the conference. Then again a well run could well survive in the Conf North.
It's a debate worth having
- Aug 4, 2013
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Or you could argue that the three clubs averaging 600/700 at this level with limited away support and competing against each other shows the potential one Northwich club could have? Recent 74/vics fa vase gates shows interest is there.One fully united club (huge ask I know) could easily support conf north at least, individually no chance.
- Jan 31, 2017
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if you can a be a successful club the potential in this area is vast..also note that macc are getting record gates much more than they ever got as a football league club. the problem is as been mentioned you have three local teams all at a similar level all trying to attract new supporters in a changing world when the young uns prefer to watch Sky..however lets hope someone gets a good cup run it then may help to stimulate local football. for everybody.also the awful sport reporting in the Guardian is not helping to promote local sport
If Forest Green from Nailsworth (pop 7,791 in 2021) can reach Div 1 then a lot of things are possible.
Perhaps an independent person would like to spend time at all 3 local 'senior'(?) clubs next season and guage the support?
It's a big step for any supporter to take to agree to merge with another club(s) and all the practical benefits and challenges can be totally overridden by emotion. Inverness is a good example of what can be achieved and no doubt there are equally good examples of where it hasn't worked. What is certain is that, football wise, it's a fast changing world and there are as many opportunities as there are risks.
This is not meant as in any way sniping at Witton but the report of their fans meeting could have been cut and pasted from Vics meetings in the 1980's, 90's and 00's. My belief is that the way forward in football is via the 74 structure - Exeter have just gone up to Div 1 with that model. No matter how good an individual or benefactor is the reality is it lasts only for a limited period. Businesses come and go benefactors go bust, get ill, die or just move on in life.
If there is any real debate then perhaps the next step is to initially put the emotion on one side and look at what each club could/would bring to the table, what they would want in return, how much of each club's history could be retained and incorporated and what the structure would be. Once there is some shape to that then open the gates to the emotion and see where it goes from there.
And if it didn't go anywhere then all 3 clubs could still carry on indefinitely at whatever level becomex appropriate knowing that the football pyramid remains and if circumstances change the way back up is clear.
Perhaps an independent person would like to spend time at all 3 local 'senior'(?) clubs next season and guage the support?
It's a big step for any supporter to take to agree to merge with another club(s) and all the practical benefits and challenges can be totally overridden by emotion. Inverness is a good example of what can be achieved and no doubt there are equally good examples of where it hasn't worked. What is certain is that, football wise, it's a fast changing world and there are as many opportunities as there are risks.
This is not meant as in any way sniping at Witton but the report of their fans meeting could have been cut and pasted from Vics meetings in the 1980's, 90's and 00's. My belief is that the way forward in football is via the 74 structure - Exeter have just gone up to Div 1 with that model. No matter how good an individual or benefactor is the reality is it lasts only for a limited period. Businesses come and go benefactors go bust, get ill, die or just move on in life.
If there is any real debate then perhaps the next step is to initially put the emotion on one side and look at what each club could/would bring to the table, what they would want in return, how much of each club's history could be retained and incorporated and what the structure would be. Once there is some shape to that then open the gates to the emotion and see where it goes from there.
And if it didn't go anywhere then all 3 clubs could still carry on indefinitely at whatever level becomex appropriate knowing that the football pyramid remains and if circumstances change the way back up is clear.
The potential interest is there for sure. I seem to remember our FA Vase match against Thatcham attracting an attendance of around 1,700.
Look at some of the crowds in non league football this season. We’re talking record crowds, the highest for years. Some teams in our league getting attendances of more than 2,000. There are fans out there. The hard bit for all three clubs is getting them to come and try a game. The same challenge would apply with any merger club.
Look at some of the crowds in non league football this season. We’re talking record crowds, the highest for years. Some teams in our league getting attendances of more than 2,000. There are fans out there. The hard bit for all three clubs is getting them to come and try a game. The same challenge would apply with any merger club.
- Jun 1, 2017
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- Jun 1, 2017
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- Dec 18, 2014
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Pete - I have said elsewhere that I have attended a huge number of meeting where every analogy know to man with regard to stabilising sinking ships, life rafts and staying afloat have been used - all to little avail and with no impact on circumstances. The cycle of hand to mouth existence and continuous struggle has to be broken to get different results.
We all know its a big step and one to be taken with great caution and it cannot happen without the support of all the clubs involved - but something has to give at some point. It may take some time to come to a conclusion and there will no doubt be plenty of opportunity for consultation, but I get the feeling just through the responses on this thread (and others on the WAFC forum too) that some supporters are beginning to realise the debate needs to happen.
We all know its a big step and one to be taken with great caution and it cannot happen without the support of all the clubs involved - but something has to give at some point. It may take some time to come to a conclusion and there will no doubt be plenty of opportunity for consultation, but I get the feeling just through the responses on this thread (and others on the WAFC forum too) that some supporters are beginning to realise the debate needs to happen.
- Dec 11, 2015
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"Something has to give at some point"
There are risks with merging but perhaps even bigger risks with not merging. If the clubs merge then you have 700-800 fans hopefully building something new that retains the history of the old clubs. The interest, higher level of football and longer cup runs would hopefully attract new fans as well.
If there is no merge and one of the teams ceases to exist then the fans of that club are not suddenly going to start supporting one of the other clubs (i.e. If Witton ceased to exist tomorrow, you won't suddenly get 300-400 additional fans at 1874 and Vica versa). One clubs demise is not an other clubs gain here at all, these fans would be lost to Northwich based clubs for good. The only way to secure the continuity of 700-800 hardcore fans continuing to watch football in Northwich is through a merged club.
There are risks with merging BUT the risk with NOT merging is:
- At best the three clubs stay in existence at lower levels of non league football, not attracting any new fans, living hand to mouth, becoming more and more irrelevant until they pale into insignificance. In twenty years time there is not enough interest to continue at even current lower non league levels and they become permanent North West counties or Sunday league clubs
- Worse one or more of the three clubs can not sustain living hand to mouth and cease to exist, the fans do not suddenly start supporting one of the other clubs and are lost to Northwich forever. The remaining clubs just follow step 1 until they also cease to exist
Instead of thinking we could merge to mitigate issues that might happen in the future we need to recognise and acknowledge that there is a huge problem right now that is common across all three clubs, that needs drastic action as soon as possible to secure the future of football in Northwich.
- Dec 18, 2014
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I absolutely agree David.
Supporters of all the Mid-Cheshire clubs have to realise that the option to stay as we are carries significant risks. In the last 30 years WAFC have used up all the cash released from the sale of the Central Ground, sold large tracts of land at either end of the ground and used that money, received and used up large amounts of supporters donations and loans and bank finance - to end up 4 leagues lower than where we started. I appreciate that there have been some ups and downs along the way, but the big picture is one where the club is living hand to mouth using up all its resources just to keep going and is finding it harder and harder to be competitive, I suspect that all the 3 senior clubs are in similar positions. The risks of staying as we are cannot be ameliorated, so it is only a matter of time before clubs fail. If shareholder, supporters, stakeholders vote for no change they must accept that in all likelihood they are voting for their club to cease at some point. Is that what anyone really wants? Peeps need to make this decision with eyes wide open. The WAFC AGM is scheduled for the end of May, hopefully we will get to start this debate in earnest.
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A genuine question - are the 1874 fans in favour of looking at the idea of a merger saying 1874 (specifically) has failed or is going to fail after ten years and we were wrong to break away from Vics?
Would be interested to know thoughts.
Would be interested to know thoughts.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Where is the evidence of interest on the Witton forum?
- Jan 31, 2017
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of the three clubs the 1874 forum is the only decent one when it comes to debate.thats why the Witton supporters come on here. The Witton one as always been poor with just a handful making a contribution.as for Vics thats non existent. but talking with Witton and Vics fans in Northwich over the last week they have no interest at all in any changes.and seem quite happy as someone said to just Bumble along.if i have to make a prediction it would be that Vics and Witton who share a ground will join up.and that 1874 will continue as a solo club.however who knows what the state of local football will be in 5 years
- Dec 11, 2015
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Would be good to know for each of the three clubs the average home attendance and age profile:
average no of under 18s
average 18 to 30
average 30 to 45
Average 45 to 60
Average over 60
Would be good to compare this with the likes of Macc
average no of under 18s
average 18 to 30
average 30 to 45
Average 45 to 60
Average over 60
Would be good to compare this with the likes of Macc
- Dec 18, 2014
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I think a best guess will be as good as it gets !
- Dec 11, 2015
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If over 80% of existing match goers are in the 45 and over group then there is a huge problem and failure waiting to happen
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- Jun 24, 2013
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I’d say you were fairly close to the mark with your profile estimate to be honest.