Football in Northwich

[Knutsfordian]

Who would invest in Witton though?

I believe the ground is valued at around £600k in the accounts. You'll not get a new ground for that.
Any Witton fan with money to invest would have come forward by now you'd have thought.

Which leaves the dodgy sort of investor.
Unless another club invests in Wincham Park??

Well first up - it doesn't have to be a WAFC fan. Wrexham have been bought out by Ryan Reynolds - and I suspect he never even knew where Wrexham was !!

What is needed is a genuine football person with the inspiration and desire to do something about the current situation in mid Cheshire.

The value of Wincham Park is pretty much immaterial in so much as it is now unlikely that WAFC will move anywhere else, and that the land could be sold for anything other than industrial use. So a lower valuation would in effect make it easier for a new owner willing to buy out WAFC shareholders. The idea that it would sell for £millions are in the past and that lower valuation could ameliorate the risk that some shareholders might try and force sale just to cash in.

For me the most important thing is to start off by just having the debate about the art of the possible, come up with a process and stepping stones and then see if there is anyone out there we could all work with to bring a plan to fruition. It has to be done by, and with, consent of supporters and shareholders so there can be no backroom deals - but the opportunities that could be created are in my view well worth the risks.

 

[Dave James]

Well first up - it doesn't have to be a WAFC fan. Wrexham have been bought out by Ryan Reynolds - and I suspect he never even knew where Wrexham was !!

What is needed is a genuine football person with the inspiration and desire to do something about the current situation in mid Cheshire.

The value of Wincham Park is pretty much immaterial in so much as it is now unlikely that WAFC will move anywhere else, and that the land could be sold for anything other than industrial use. So a lower valuation would in effect make it easier for a new owner willing to buy out WAFC shareholders. The idea that it would sell for £millions are in the past and that lower valuation could ameliorate the risk that some shareholders might try and force sale just to cash in.

For me the most important thing is to start off by just having the debate about the art of the possible, come up with a process and stepping stones and then see if there is anyone out there we could all work with to bring a plan to fruition. It has to be done by, and with, consent of supporters and shareholders so there can be no backroom deals - but the opportunities that could be created are in my view well worth the risks.

Spot on, just start the debate off and see where it goes. Worth speaking to Ossett and see how they went about joining together?

 

[Edge]

Well first up - it doesn't have to be a WAFC fan. Wrexham have been bought out by Ryan Reynolds - and I suspect he never even knew where Wrexham was !!

What is needed is a genuine football person with the inspiration and desire to do something about the current situation in mid Cheshire.

The last two times that happened Mike Connett & Jim Rushe bought Vics.

The only similar situation I can think of was Max Griggs merging the 2 clubs to form Rushden & Diamonds.
And look how that turned out.

 

[Tez]

The last two times that happened Mike Connett & Jim Rushe bought Vics.

The only similar situation I can think of was Max Griggs merging the 2 clubs to form Rushden & Diamonds.
And look how that turned out.

To be fair Max Griggs built and decent ground and (presumably) bankrolled a decent playing side too. Am I correct in thinking that he left the club in good shape and it was then taken over by the supporters? which Is the point it started go wrong ? (Happy to stand corrected if I’ve misinterpreted the transfer of power/ownership ?).

 

[Knutsfordian]

The last two times that happened Mike Connett & Jim Rushe bought Vics.

The only similar situation I can think of was Max Griggs merging the 2 clubs to form Rushden & Diamonds.
And look how that turned out.

Trouble is Edge that you can become so risk averse that you become paralysed by fear.

Clubs get successfully taken over and its all about finding the right owners

 

[Edge]

I'm not sure what happened to Rushden after Griggs left. Other than they ended up not existing.
If your club can't break even without a sugar daddy then you're going to end up in the AGM cup at some point, at best.

For me, I'm happy supporting a club run on sound financial lines & with owners that share the same view.

 

[Tony Fallows]

I would be very reluctant to get involved with rich "businessmen" again, after all that is why we set up our club to get away from these rogues and criminals. Personally, I would find the idea of giving up fan ownership a step too far.

 

[Knutsfordian]

I would be very reluctant to get involved with rich "businessmen" again, after all that is why we set up our club to get away from these rogues and criminals. Personally, I would find the idea of giving up fan ownership a step too far.

And that's fine - everyone entitled to a view, but it all rests on what you want from your club and if you can sustain football at a decent level - which none of the teams are currently doing !

 

[Tez]

Trouble is Edge that you can become so risk averse that you become paralysed by fear.

Clubs get successfully taken over and its all about finding the right owners

No harm in sticking with what works, and currently it does; no current reason to take any risk. Of course if the ambition is to climb the pyramid, then the present structure isn’t going to meet that, and in fact it might even result in a step (or two) backwards in order to maintain that control and stay with the budget we have to work with. Personally I’m comfortable with that. Of course if there is a benefactor out there who is happy to take a forty nine percent backseat, with the fans still having a controlling influence - not likely is it???‍

 

[Tony Fallows]

What Tez says!

 

[James Wood]

I'm not sure what happened to Rushden after Griggs left. Other than they ended up not existing.
If your club can't break even without a sugar daddy then you're going to end up in the AGM cup at some point, at best.

For me, I'm happy supporting a club run on sound financial lines & with owners that share the same view.

And in principal so am I Edge. After all, I was one of those who were advocating to set up a supporters run club.

But if we are content to remain with this model, then we must also accept that our long term future is at Barnton playing NPL Div 1 or NWCFL football as we simply don’t have the financial clout to challenge for promotion or develop Townfield to the standard that is needed for the NPL Prem (or at least not for several years)!

 

[James Wood]

I would be very reluctant to get involved with rich "businessmen" again, after all that is why we set up our club to get away from these rogues and criminals. Personally, I would find the idea of giving up fan ownership a step too far.

Tony - not every rich businessman is a rogue or a criminal.

And yes, it would have to be a pretty compelling reason for us even to consider giving up fan ownership.

But several clubs - Wrexham, Wycombe, Swansea being examples - have and their owners are far from being scoundrels or rogues

 

[James Wood]

And that's fine - everyone entitled to a view, but it all rests on what you want from your club and if you can sustain football at a decent level - which none of the teams are currently doing !

You hit the nail on the head Knutsfordian.

With all the many new housing developments being built and new people coming into the town, there has never been a better opportunity to create a unified club that can tap into this market and build a true community club that can represent the town.

I’m not saying it would be easy. Personally I’d find it difficult to reconcile my differences with quite a number of Vics fans.

But how will future generations judge us if we don’t at least explore this option?

The plain and simple fact is that at present all three clubs face very uncertain futures and are struggling to attract supporters, sponsorship. My concern is that collectively senior football in the town will wither on the vine and every Saturday an increasing number of people will get their football fix by watching games on TV or via streaming services or they’ll jump on trains to
Manchester, Liverpool etc.

 

[Edge]

And that's fine - everyone entitled to a view, but it all rests on what you want from your club and if you can sustain football at a decent level - which none of the teams are currently doing !

I'm pretty certain we're sustaining football at a decent level.

 

[Mark Riding]

Funny how these threads keep coming around when the other two clubs are in the crap. Our club gets better by involving more new people, not by merging with the ever dwindling support of the competition.

Pretty happy following OUR team to its highest ever finish, and if we stay at this level for another 10 years I'd still be happy too.

Derby games vs Witton, Linnets and Macc next year are the perfect opportunity for us. Some big gates to be had.

 

[Ben]

I'm pretty certain we're sustaining football at a decent level.

That was my first thought. Finishing mid-table in NPL West One is sustaining football at a decent level. It’s a very tough league as we found out last season. If that remains the status quo for a while then so be it, it’s good enough for many established clubs in this league.

We’re not Northwich Vics playing in the Conference now and we’ve got to accept we never will be. I’m all for ambition but we’ve got to be realistic and nothing we do can put the financial future of the club in jeopardy. Let’s remember why we formed 1874 in the first place. This young club has achieved a lot in its first ten years (two promotions already, cup runs, cup success) and that should also not be forgotten.

 

[Knutsfordian]

That was my first thought. Finishing mid-table in NPL West One is sustaining football at a decent level. It’s a very tough league as we found out last season. If that remains the status quo for a while then so be it, it’s good enough for many established clubs in this league.

We’re not Northwich Vics playing in the Conference now and we’ve got to accept we never will be. I’m all for ambition but we’ve got to be realistic and nothing we do can put the financial future of the club in jeopardy. Let’s remember why we formed 1874 in the first place. This young club has achieved a lot in its first ten years (two promotions already, cup runs, cup success) and that should also not be forgotten.

OK so lets be realistic - its taken 10 years of hard work to get 1874 out of North West Counties 2 into the Unibond through re-organisation and restructuring as opposed to winning promotion outright - and that's the easy bit !! Teams like Fleetwood, Fylde. FC United etc have stormed through these lower leagues and only started hitting the wall at Conference North. You have still yet to see if you can sustain this level (as have WAFC no one-upmanship here) - and then there's the long haul and the question of sustainability.

In my view - and it is only my view ! - is that teams without ambition and a realistic chance of success will wither and die on the vine.

There is risk. There is always risk. If you are so paralysed by the fear of losing what you have you become moribund. As I have said elsewhere just surviving isn't a good place to land. Its a sad hand to mouth existence that brings terminal decline. So how many years have to pass before being in the same league isn't the right answer. Another 10, 20, 30? By then it may be too late.

As football supporters in mid-Cheshire, if all we want is survival we don't deserve a better team, opportunity, excitement, achievement because we have already settled for the mundane and just making up the numbers in the league.

I am absolutely not knocking what 1874 have achieved. Hats off to setting up a new club and starting to climb the pyramid. But the really hard work hasn't even started yet. To get higher needs more support, more investment, better grounds, more people. Can any of the mid-Cheshire clubs deliver that alone? That's the question, the challenge, the debate to be had. If supporters decide that they want to stick with the status quo, then so be it. But at least have the debate and think about it !!!!

 

[Tez]

That was my first thought. Finishing mid-table in NPL West One is sustaining football at a decent level. It’s a very tough league as we found out last season. If that remains the status quo for a while then so be it, it’s good enough for many established clubs in this league.

We’re not Northwich Vics playing in the Conference now and we’ve got to accept we never will be. I’m all for ambition but we’ve got to be realistic and nothing we do can put the financial future of the club in jeopardy. Let’s remember why we formed 1874 in the first place. This young club has achieved a lot in its first ten years (two promotions already, cup runs, cup success) and that should also not be forgotten.

Spot on there Ben.

 

[Tez]

Knutsfordian you make it sound like we moved up a Astro by the back door. In reality had it not been covid causing the season to be null and void we would almost certainly have earned our promotion to the NPL by right.

 

[virgil caine]

got to agree with James Wood and Roger on this one (nurse my tablets please ) but my concern is it all too late.You have certain 1874 fans who hate Vics.certain Vics fans who hate 1874 and Wittons Swampy Flavell who seems to hate everybody, given all the facts regarding local football all the new people coming into the area and potential to have one town team with the combined resources to create a team that could achieve something and attract the younger fans. to me its got to be the future direction to go however an equal amount are just as happy to stay the same. if thats the case i hope all three clubs can survive