Cummings, Johnson and this whole shit show

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James Wood

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So who is blaming the French company that made the Grenfell cladding and who knew the cladding was a fire risk and who refused to give evidence at the Grenfell enquiry? As far as I am aware the government has committed £millions to helping those affected by the cladding issues and also want the freeholders to step up and take on some of the burden. Why is it the whole issue has to be resolved at tax payers expense?
Ah, blame the French. Sorry, but this a British problem.

Decent back-bench Tory MPs are enraged at how the government have rail-roaded this through.

But I agree with you that the entire costs of correcting the faults should not fall entirely on the public purse. The developers who initiated and paid for the construction of these buildings should also pay their fair share. After all, many made a nice wedge from them.

Oh hold on. Don’t many major developers and construction companies line the pockets of the Tory party on a regular basis? 🤫
 

James Wood

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Personally, I think that cuts to foreign aid budgets in the pandemic are justified. Some may disagree, but I suspect there's many across all the electorate that don't.

Funny how nobody gives a toss about the billions being spent on aid and the British are treated like lepers of the world - until we stop paying the bills and then there's a hue and cry about it !

Not sure how the priorities were decided, given that we have consistently been told that £billions have been misspent on aid projects, so it would be good to know what is being supported alongside what now isn't - and how decisions were made, by whom, to cut whole programmes rather than salami cuts across the whole portfolio. I suspect there's more than a slice of mischief making here.
Yes, let’s turn our backs on the most vulnerable and needy across the world while making sure that our mates’ pockets continue to be lined with public money.

You really are all heart Knutsfordian...
 

James Wood

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Yes, that Priti Patel, the current Home Secretary, who was found guilty of breaching the ministerial code which would normally be a resigning matter. But because Johnson is the ultimate arbiter of such matters, she remains in post despite being found guilty of being a bully.

So a government that condones lying and bullying 😡. What message does that send out to our young people?
This article hits the nail on the head...,

 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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Ah, blame the French. Sorry, but this a British problem.

If this was a UK manufacturer they would be in the dock. This happened under the EU watch, so why aren't the rules of negligence applied to a French company who are being protected from receiving the justice they deserve? That company is culpable for the deaths at Grenfell when they knowingly supplied goods within the single market knowing that they were both unsuitable and a fire hazard. But French law allows them to be protected? How can that possibly be right????

I agree there are other issues at stake and those will come to the fore when the enquiry presents its findings, but this isn't purely a matter of government failure - as you would wish it to be - nor should the failures of an overseas company be paid for by British tax payers.

On the question of the wider issue of replacing all cladding, then there has to be compromise by all of the leaseholders, freeholders, manufacturers and government - but definitely not just the government !!!
 
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Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Yes, let’s turn our backs on the most vulnerable and needy across the world while making sure that our mates’ pockets continue to be lined with public money.

You really are all heart Knutsfordian...
There is no evidence that any corruption has taken place - even Tony Blair on TV recently re-iterated the high standards of public life in this country. This totally unfounded diatribe accusing reputable companies of lining politicians pockets will at some point come back to bite the Labour Party.
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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If this was a UK manufacturer they would be in the dock. This happened under the EU watch, so why aren't the rules of negligence applied to a French company who are being protected from receiving the justice they deserve? That company is culpable for the deaths at Grenfell when they knowingly supplied goods within the single market knowing that they were both unsuitable and a fire hazard. But French law allows them to be protected? How can that possibly be right????

I agree there are other issues at stake and those will come to the fore when the enquiry presents its findings, but this isn't purely a matter of government failure - as you would wish it to be - nor should the failures of an overseas company be paid for by British tax payers.

On the question of the wider issue of replacing all cladding, then there has to be compromise by all of the leaseholders, freeholders, manufacturers and government - but definitely not just the government !!!
In your continued blind and preposterous diatribe against anything Gallic, you completely miss the point.

The cladding is just one small element of this scandal. Developers, architects, consultants, construction companies all have statutory responsibilities to ensure what they construct is safe, meets all relevant standards and are fit for purpose.

Grenfell and the many other similar tower blocks clearly fail this test. And yes whist the government are providing a substantial chunk of money to start addressing this issue, 4 1/2 years after this tragic disaster they still have not put together a cogent, long-term plan to resolve this matter.

In the meantime thousands of innocent leaseholders remain in limbo, their lives finances and futures in tatters.

But never mind eh, at least that nice Mr Jenrick helped regular Tory party donor Richard Desmond save paying £30M into the public purse.

#dontforgetweareallinthistogether
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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In your continued blind and preposterous diatribe against anything Gallic, you completely miss the point.

The cladding is just one small element of this scandal. Developers, architects, consultants, construction companies all have statutory responsibilities to ensure what they construct is safe, meets all relevant standards and are fit for purpose.

Grenfell and the many other similar tower blocks clearly fail this test. And yes whist the government are providing a substantial chunk of money to start addressing this issue, 4 1/2 years after this tragic disaster they still have not put together a cogent, long-term plan to resolve this matter.

In the meantime thousands of innocent leaseholders remain in limbo, their lives finances and futures in tatters.

But never mind eh, at least that nice Mr Jenrick helped regular Tory party donor Richard Desmond save paying £30M into the public purse.

#dontforgetweareallinthistogether

The cladding isn't just one small element - it was directly responsible for the deaths of the Grenfell Residents !!!

I accept that there are " other issues at stake" and have already said so.

The impact on residents of apartments is deplorable, but it isn't the fault of the government alone and tax payers should not have to pick up the costs. The onus should really fall on the developers and freeholders who built the blocks and walked away with the profits
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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The cladding isn't just one small element - it was directly responsible for the deaths of the Grenfell Residents !!!

I accept that there are " other issues at stake" and have already said so.

The impact on residents of apartments is deplorable, but it isn't the fault of the government alone and tax payers should not have to pick up the costs. The onus should really fall on the developers and freeholders who built the blocks and walked away with the profits
“The bible for the construction industry in England is called Approved Document B. It sets out the fire performance standards required for all buildings.
Only products with a rating of B in the European fire test can be used on tall buildings above 18m. The Reynobond cladding with class E fell short of the required standard.
England has its own system of fire test ratings. The best rating is Class 0 (zero), which is acceptable instead of the European standard. But Reynobond PE's French manufacturer had never put this cladding through the relevant tests, the inquiry was told.”

So given this, who the hell specified and approved a cladding system that didn’t meet the required standards?

As I said, there are many facets related to this tragedy, of which the cladding is a significant element, but not the only one.
 

Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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“The bible for the construction industry in England is called Approved Document B. It sets out the fire performance standards required for all buildings.
Only products with a rating of B in the European fire test can be used on tall buildings above 18m. The Reynobond cladding with class E fell short of the required standard.
England has its own system of fire test ratings. The best rating is Class 0 (zero), which is acceptable instead of the European standard. But Reynobond PE's French manufacturer had never put this cladding through the relevant tests, the inquiry was told.”

So given this, who the hell specified and approved a cladding system that didn’t meet the required standards?

As I said, there are many facets related to this tragedy, of which the cladding is a significant element, but not the only one.
So we agree then that the real onus is on the Developers and Freeholders who didn't follow regulations during construction, didn't check the specifications properly and then bought cladding from a company who knew it was unsafe but sold it anyway? And that's somehow the government's fault to fix it all?

I agree government has a role in bringing all this to a head and getting resolution for the poor sods caught up in the middle but they shouldn't be pilloried for those failures - only its own - and god knows there are enough of those in government and local authorities
 

James Wood

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If it was anyone but Johnson
And if he can’t even look after his own finances and personal arrangements, how the hell can he be trusted to look after the nations’ coffers?

 

James Wood

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If it was anyone but Johnson

And if he can’t even look after his own finances and personal arrangements, how the hell can he be trusted to look after the nations’ coffers?

And yet, despite all of this, many think that Johnson is ‘doing a good job’.

I despair, I really do. When a once proud and great country such as ours now finds itself in such a sorry state, beholden to a bunch of corrupt, self-serving, elitist and simply uncaring bastards, I seriously wonder if whether we will ever find ourselves back in position where we have a government that is committed to improving the lives of the majority, the needy, the most vulnerable on our society rather than lining their pockets and those of their cronies.

My own MP - Mike Amesbury - has lead by example by getting his act in making school uniforms affordable to all onto the statute books. He’s also championed those thousands of unfortunate people who through no fault of their own have been caught up in the cladding scandal and now face financial ruin.
 

James Wood

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Jun 1, 2017
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Knutsfordian

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Dec 18, 2014
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So it would seem that Starmer's bluster about Boris is falling flat and the polls are still showing strong support for Boris. Now the storm has blown out whilst the numerous investigations initiated by Labour take time to report, just what is going to be Labour's selling point in the forthcoming elections?

The warnings are dire. Not only has Labour lost its way in Scotland, but also those seats in the North where the bedrock of voters were from mining and steel industries. Labour is never going to win a majority in the shires, so just what are they proposing to do?

I keep coming back to the point that Labour urgently needs talent and leadership. They may muddle through this week's elections and hold Hartlepool too, but if they do it's only a stay of execution. You can keep banging on about Boris's impropriety, but its not making Labour electable.
 

James Wood

I Live Here
Jun 1, 2017
804
386
73
Personally, I think that cuts to foreign aid budgets in the pandemic are justified. Some may disagree, but I suspect there's many across all the electorate that don't.

Funny how nobody gives a toss about the billions being spent on aid and the British are treated like lepers of the world - until we stop paying the bills and then there's a hue and cry about it !

Not sure how the priorities were decided, given that we have consistently been told that £billions have been misspent on aid projects, so it would be good to know what is being supported alongside what now isn't - and how decisions were made, by whom, to cut whole programmes rather than salami cuts across the whole portfolio. I suspect there's more than a slice of mischief making here.
So this government decides to slash massively needed aid to the most vulnerable and needy in the world, but they propose to spend £200M on a bloody vanity project that will bring bugger all long term benefit to the country.

But no doubt this populist announcement will leave readers of the Torygraph, Daily Heil etc wetting themselves....
 

Knutsfordian

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So this government decides to slash massively needed aid to the most vulnerable and needy in the world, but they propose to spend £200M on a bloody vanity project that will bring bugger all long term benefit to the country.

But no doubt this populist announcement will leave readers of the Torygraph, Daily Heil etc wetting themselves....
go on then James enlighten us
 

James Wood

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go on then James enlighten us
Enlighten us in what way? You know full well that this sort of populist claptrap will be flogged for all it is worth by the Mail, Torygraph, Express etc.

In the same way that all of them oddly had pictures of Princess Charlotte on their front pages to celebrate a really notable birthday for her (after all, being six is well known as being a major landmark in anyone’s life isn’t it?).

Then again, if you are a cynic like me, then you might just wonder if all this pap - including the proposed new effin Royal Tub - is yet another smokescreen to deflect our attention away from the continued lies, sleaze and corruption of this lamentable shower of shit that is currently our government 🤬🤬😡 💩
 
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Knutsfordian

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Enlighten us in what way? You know full well that this sort of populist claptrap will be flogged for all it is worth by the Mail, Torygraph, Express etc.

In the same way that all of them oddly had pictures of Princess Charlotte on their front pages to celebrate a really notable birthday for her (after all, being six is well known as being a major landmark in anyone’s life isn’t it?).

Then again, if you are a cynic like me, then you might just wonder if all this pap - including the proposed new effin Royal Tub - is yet another smokescreen to deflect our attention away from the continued lies, sleaze and corruption of this lamentable shower of shit that is currently our government 🤬🤬😡 💩
Aaah right a proposed royal yacht. Not sure they justify a £200m tug when so much of the fleet is broken and at anchor
 
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Andy

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James, I’ve seen you refer to Boris and the government as Populist a few times now, and I can’t work out why.

Boris Johnson isn't a populist. He's a fairly bog standard social & economic liberal. A bog standard centre right Politician. Don’t mistake the rare sight of a politician with charisma and personality with being populist, because that’s not what populism is. (See Keir Starmer for example of your typical bland social & economic liberal)

The reality is, in the last election, it was Corbyns Labour that were the Populists. Especially in the truest sense of the word, when you look at where the populist movement started with farmers in America in the late 1890s.

The definition of a Populist is - “a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.”

I don’t know why it’s bounded around like a dirty word. How dare a politician want to stand for ordinary people.
 
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