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Cummings, Johnson and this whole shit show

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Knutsfordian is right about Labours worrying lack of talent.

You can dislike Rishi Sunak, but he looks like a future Prime Minister. There’s no one in the Labour Party that you can look and at realistically see them as a Prime Minister.

Corbyn maybe gone, but his legacy hasn’t, the younger MPs coming through, labours future, are just totally abysmal. You look at the likes of Nadia Whittome, Zara Sultana, Richard Burgon and so on, and there’s nothing there than appeals to Labours old red wall voters.

When you read their tweets, it’s like a 16 year old after a week of AS level politics. So disconnected to what people in the real world are actually concerned about.
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A neutral view from Ireland.

James - you know as well as I do that's not neutral. An article written to discredit a British Brexit Prime Minister in an Irish pro-European paper. IT fails at the first hurdle in term of neutrality. The premise of Irish neutrality has long been dead.

I agree in part that in times past, faced with such questions about his personal life, would Boris have survived? Maybe not, but we don't live in normal times and Brexit along with the Pandemic have ripped up the usual playbook. I think most people are prepared to forgive indulgencies until we get through this pandemic and then you might see a return to normality in more ways than one. I would also add that many successful leaders and politicians have had seriously flawed personal lives - including some of our royal family
 
James - you know as well as I do that's not neutral. An article written to discredit a British Brexit Prime Minister in an Irish pro-European paper. IT fails at the first hurdle in term of neutrality. The premise of Irish neutrality has long been dead.

I agree in part that in times past, faced with such questions about his personal life, would Boris have survived? Maybe not, but we don't live in normal times and Brexit along with the Pandemic have ripped up the usual playbook. I think most people are prepared to forgive indulgencies until we get through this pandemic and then you might see a return to normality in more ways than one. I would also add that many successful leaders and politicians have had seriously flawed personal lives - including some of our royal family
Now don’t get me onto them! ?
 
What are your thoughts on Greensill/Cameron @Knutsfordian ?
Personally I think Cameron's behaviour is at best bizarre. Beyond that the problem would appear to be that there doesn't seem to be any wrong doing or evidence that the government responded to the lobbying by making any decision in Greensill's favour. So no crime has actually been committed. Given that 's the case (and if it turns out to be a crime has been committed it's a different matter), what's all the fuss about? The amount of effort put in to try and sway the government to make a decision in Greensill's favour has been extraordinary - but if that failed then so what?
 
Come on James - you must be losing your touch - no rant about Cameron and Greensill ??
Not losing my touch. I see that the hypocritical bully has been breaking the law again. But still no resignation. This shower of shite have no comprehension of honesty or integrity.

 
Personally I think Cameron's behaviour is at best bizarre. Beyond that the problem would appear to be that there doesn't seem to be any wrong doing or evidence that the government responded to the lobbying by making any decision in Greensill's favour. So no crime has actually been committed. Given that 's the case (and if it turns out to be a crime has been committed it's a different matter), what's all the fuss about? The amount of effort put in to try and sway the government to make a decision in Greensill's favour has been extraordinary - but if that failed then so what?
Your response tells me a massive amount about your moral compass. You can’t even bring yourself to criticise the whole stinking process that lets third parties have almost unfettered access to key Ministers and their senior advisors whilst the country is dealing with its biggest crisis in 75 years!’

You really just don’t get it do you?
 
James - you know as well as I do that's not neutral. An article written to discredit a British Brexit Prime Minister in an Irish pro-European paper. IT fails at the first hurdle in term of neutrality. The premise of Irish neutrality has long been dead.

I agree in part that in times past, faced with such questions about his personal life, would Boris have survived? Maybe not, but we don't live in normal times and Brexit along with the Pandemic have ripped up the usual playbook. I think most people are prepared to forgive indulgencies until we get through this pandemic and then you might see a return to normality in more ways than one. I would also add that many successful leaders and politicians have had seriously flawed personal lives - including some of our royal family
Need any further evidence? Or are the myopic eyes of the Bojo Brown Nosing Society so rose tinted you can’t bring yourself to admit that he is a blustering, vainglorious, egotistical, arrogant arsehole?

“Some were less impressed. “What had we done for Boris? Had we taught him truthfulness? No. Had we taught him wisdom? No. What had we taught? Was it only how to make witty and brilliant speeches?” So the philosopher Anthony Kenny, master of Balliol in Johnson’s day, reflected in a 2018 memoir. “Probably the worst scholar Eton ever sent us – a buffoon and an idler,” the ancient historian Oswyn Murray told me.”
 
Need any further evidence? Or are the myopic eyes of the Bojo Brown Nosing Society so rose tinted you can’t bring yourself to admit that he is a blustering, vainglorious, egotistical, arrogant arsehole?

“Some were less impressed. “What had we done for Boris? Had we taught him truthfulness? No. Had we taught him wisdom? No. What had we taught? Was it only how to make witty and brilliant speeches?” So the philosopher Anthony Kenny, master of Balliol in Johnson’s day, reflected in a 2018 memoir. “Probably the worst scholar Eton ever sent us – a buffoon and an idler,” the ancient historian Oswyn Murray told me.”
And lest we forget this! From the former editor of one of the bastions of the right-wing English establishment no less...

 
Your response tells me a massive amount about your moral compass. You can’t even bring yourself to criticise the whole stinking process that lets third parties have almost unfettered access to key Ministers and their senior advisors whilst the country is dealing with its biggest crisis in 75 years!’

You really just don’t get it do you?
Whooooah hold on James.

Lobbying and trying to influence government decisions predates any parliamentary democracy and was just as prevalent in any Labour government as any Conservative one - isn't that what the Unions do by paying for Labour's election expenses and sponsoring MPs? So this whole murky business of who is exerting influence, and when, is a matter of concern and debate but not necessarily every instance is an incidence of corruption.

Cameron's behaviours with this relentless lobbying for Greensill smacks of desperation. Whether that was driven by business need or the promise of shareholder riches to come is open to question - but I suspect that Cameron hasn't been so daft as to leave himself open to accusations of corruption. He has extensive family and business financial interests, so it doesn't make sense that he would put those in jeopardy.

But what we do have here is (yet another) example of Labour flying in all guns blazing, extending the list of issues and accusations until it reaches the point where the whole thing just becomes chaff and falls on its backside, without anything being achieved. If they want to nail the government on something that will stick, they have to find the crime scene in which the smoking gun originated. Cameron will go to the Treasury select committee, hold his hands up, plead that there's nothing to see here guv and without any evidence to the contrary, Labour will end up muttering and grumbling and achieving nothing.

If there is corruption at any level it needs to be identified and the miscreants brought to justice - but as a Director of Public Prosecutions, Starmer must know he needs evidence and he has none. In the face of criticism about being an ineffectual leader he has fallen in to the trap of charging in like the light brigade and will no doubt have the same disastrous consequences. And overall, instead of being seen as the party holding the government to account, Labour is in danger of being seen as party who got it wrong too often.
 
Whooooah hold on James.

Lobbying and trying to influence government decisions predates any parliamentary democracy and was just as prevalent in any Labour government as any Conservative one - isn't that what the Unions do by paying for Labour's election expenses and sponsoring MPs? So this whole murky business of who is exerting influence, and when, is a matter of concern and debate but not necessarily every instance is an incidence of corruption.

Cameron's behaviours with this relentless lobbying for Greensill smacks of desperation. Whether that was driven by business need or the promise of shareholder riches to come is open to question - but I suspect that Cameron hasn't been so daft as to leave himself open to accusations of corruption. He has extensive family and business financial interests, so it doesn't make sense that he would put those in jeopardy.

But what we do have here is (yet another) example of Labour flying in all guns blazing, extending the list of issues and accusations until it reaches the point where the whole thing just becomes chaff and falls on its backside, without anything being achieved. If they want to nail the government on something that will stick, they have to find the crime scene in which the smoking gun originated. Cameron will go to the Treasury select committee, hold his hands up, plead that there's nothing to see here guv and without any evidence to the contrary, Labour will end up muttering and grumbling and achieving nothing.

If there is corruption at any level it needs to be identified and the miscreants brought to justice - but as a Director of Public Prosecutions, Starmer must know he needs evidence and he has none. In the face of criticism about being an ineffectual leader he has fallen in to the trap of charging in like the light brigade and will no doubt have the same disastrous consequences. And overall, instead of being seen as the party holding the government to account, Labour is in danger of being seen as party who got it wrong too often.
Another small step towards the Conservatives insidious plan to control the majority of the major U.K. press.

 
Whooooah hold on James.

Lobbying and trying to influence government decisions predates any parliamentary democracy and was just as prevalent in any Labour government as any Conservative one - isn't that what the Unions do by paying for Labour's election expenses and sponsoring MPs? So this whole murky business of who is exerting influence, and when, is a matter of concern and debate but not necessarily every instance is an incidence of corruption.

Cameron's behaviours with this relentless lobbying for Greensill smacks of desperation. Whether that was driven by business need or the promise of shareholder riches to come is open to question - but I suspect that Cameron hasn't been so daft as to leave himself open to accusations of corruption. He has extensive family and business financial interests, so it doesn't make sense that he would put those in jeopardy.

But what we do have here is (yet another) example of Labour flying in all guns blazing, extending the list of issues and accusations until it reaches the point where the whole thing just becomes chaff and falls on its backside, without anything being achieved. If they want to nail the government on something that will stick, they have to find the crime scene in which the smoking gun originated. Cameron will go to the Treasury select committee, hold his hands up, plead that there's nothing to see here guv and without any evidence to the contrary, Labour will end up muttering and grumbling and achieving nothing.

If there is corruption at any level it needs to be identified and the miscreants brought to justice - but as a Director of Public Prosecutions, Starmer must know he needs evidence and he has none. In the face of criticism about being an ineffectual leader he has fallen in to the trap of charging in like the light brigade and will no doubt have the same disastrous consequences. And overall, instead of being seen as the party holding the government to account, Labour is in danger of being seen as party who got it wrong too often.
Ah, so once again it is the Labour Party that is at fault! Jeesh, Knutsfordian you should get a job working for Boris and his cronies given your ability to spin a story?.

Lobbying has existed ever since the serpent persuaded Eve to take the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. And of course the TUs lobby parties of all colours as do other bodies - including most of the charities I support.

But the difference between between these relationships and many fostered with the Tory party is that it is private gain that drives them.

I can only imagine how hard pressed and busy Treasury officials must have been over the last 12 months what with managing the furlough system along with doing ‘the day job’.

Yet despite this, during this period senior Treasury officials met with representatives of Greensill 10 times!

Oh, and I could also drop in the Jenrick - Desmond scandal here. You recall this don’t you?
 
Ah, so once again it is the Labour Party that is at fault! Jeesh, Knutsfordian you should get a job working for Boris and his cronies given your ability to spin a story?.

Lobbying has existed ever since the serpent persuaded Eve to take the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. And of course the TUs lobby parties of all colours as do other bodies - including most of the charities I support.

But the difference between between these relationships and many fostered with the Tory party is that it is private gain that drives them.

I can only imagine how hard pressed and busy Treasury officials must have been over the last 12 months what with managing the furlough system along with doing ‘the day job’.

Yet despite this, during this period senior Treasury officials met with representatives of Greensill 10 times!

Oh, and I could also drop in the Jenrick - Desmond scandal here. You recall this don’t you?
If you don’t, maybe this will help your amnesia.

 
Labour aren’t going to push too hard on this Lobbying scandal.

They can’t push too hard, it’d be mutually assured destruction of themselves too.
 
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