Cummings, Johnson and this whole shit show

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James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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Well, we’ll, well.

What a week it has been for this shambolic government.

When what we need at probably the biggest crisis this country has had in 80 years is a strong leadership team with talent, vision, resolve and determination, what have we got?

A lazy, egotistical, arrogant PM who has employed a even more arrogant, egotistical, sociopathic right wing idealogue as his principal advisor along with someone with such gravitas that he dressed up as a chicken during the 2010 election.

Now both of these have f****d off leaving the country in the mire just weeks before the next shit-show that they were architects of will hit us - a no deal Brexit.

Looking forward to how the Tory voting, Brexit supporting, Unicorn believers will try to explain this one away.....

#wetriedtowarnyou
#butyoujustwouldntlisten
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Yes it is a bit of a sh1t show isn't it?

What I think it really shows is the intense pressure and strain that is evident in Downing Street and the cracks are beginning to show in a few peeps - which is not unsurprising given what is going on.

These guys are very confrontational, with big egos, so there's always the chance that something could blow up (and they may be in the right) but they don't know when to concede, so it ends in tears

The most important thing is that they find some good people to replace them
 

toddyb

Too much time on my hands
Dec 23, 2014
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Well Boris was always your man Knustfordian,will you now accept you got it wrong?.
 

Alan M

Administrator
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Jun 24, 2013
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I think that maybe the question was in the sense of "as leader of the Conservative Party".
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
365
270
73
Yes it is a bit of a sh1t show isn't it?

What I think it really shows is the intense pressure and strain that is evident in Downing Street and the cracks are beginning to show in a few peeps - which is not unsurprising given what is going on.

These guys are very confrontational, with big egos, so there's always the chance that something could blow up (and they may be in the right) but they don't know when to concede, so it ends in tears

The most important thing is that they find some good people to replace them
But the “intense pressure and strain” is largely self inflicted. Their shambolic handling of Covid and absolute determination to pursue a hard Brexit at all costs has smashed any credibility that they might have had 12 months ago.

And then we have John ‘alien’ Redwood still banging on about fish....
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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But the “intense pressure and strain” is largely self inflicted. Their shambolic handling of Covid and absolute determination to pursue a hard Brexit at all costs has smashed any credibility that they might have had 12 months ago.

And then we have John ‘alien’ Redwood still banging on about fish....

I don't think I would agree that its self inflicted with regard to Covid. I am still of a view that no other party or government would have fared much differently. Brexit, probably could have been easier solved if we had stayed in the single market et al - but in my view that's not Brexit and in some ways would have been the worst of all worlds. A hard Brexit might end up being painful, but worth in the long term.

If fish is such an inconsequential industry, why don't the EU just capitulate and give us back what is ours?
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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I think that maybe the question was in the sense of "as leader of the Conservative Party".

Interesting to think what the result of re-running the leadership election with hindsight would be.

Given that Boris delivered such a stonking majority in election less than 12 months ago, I don't think the Conservatives are in the mood to ditch him just yet. If it gets closer to the election and manifesto promises are not being delivered, then that could change. A lots rests on how well the vaccination programme runs and how quickly the economy recovers. If that goes well some of the Covid issues will fade and he will be back in the driving seat. As for Brexit - if he gives in on fishing rights, he is done for. So much emphasis has been placed on "take back control", a failure to do so will be be ruthlessly exploited by both his own party and the opposition. The costs may be disproportionate, but he would have to be a magician to get away with that trick.

PS - rumours abound that Boris has compromised with Macron by offering a 2 year transition agreement on fishing with ongoing negotiations during that time - that could be the point at which Boris and the SPADS parted company
 
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Tony Fallows

I Live Here
Aug 1, 2013
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I was told recently by an ardent Brexiteer that when the s**tshow happens it will all be the fault of those of us who had the good sense to want to remain in the European Union. His rationale was that we should have accepted the decision immediately and the resulting delay has scuppered any chance of those broad sunlit uplands. My suspicion is that this will be a common theme after 1st January.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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Not sure about that Tony. I always thought, like most divorces, it would descend into chaos and rancour. We adopted the wrong approach from the start (we should have just walked away, but that could not happen for a variety of reasons). So there will be a bun fight and to prove we are an independent nation, we need to just walk. I know the Remainers don't agree with that, but it all depends whether you believe the EU will survive. I don't.

On another point - and not trying to deflect from Boris's woes - this article shows that most parties are riven with dissent


The accepted political order in the west is under threat. Brexit and Trump's election was just the start and I think there is much more to come. The election of Biden in the USA will just pave the way for another swing back to the right in 4 years time. The build up of the anti-woke movement is just gaining hold and will come back with a vengeance. Unless we can get back to some sensible discussion we are in for a good few years of strife
 

Alan M

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Jun 24, 2013
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Not sure about that Tony. I always thought, like most divorces, it would descend into chaos and rancour. We adopted the wrong approach from the start (we should have just walked away, but that could not happen for a variety of reasons).

The correct approach, given that the referendum did not split the nation (or the parties) down strictly party political lines, would have been to set up a supra-governmental cross-party commission to implement the result and take it out of the hands of just one party, and then just one faction within that party - who have since gone on to seek to implement their view of what brexit means. But that's all spilt milk now, and is turning increasingly sour.
 

Tony Fallows

I Live Here
Aug 1, 2013
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Northwich
I, as a committed remainer am convinced that leaving the European Union must go ahead. The resulting chaos can then be attributed to the guilty men and I suspect that it will finish the tory party for a generation particularly when we rejoin the EU much chastened and poorer. I just hope that the European Union will have us back although I suspect on much inferior terms that we presently enjoy.
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
Dec 18, 2014
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The correct approach, given that the referendum did not split the nation (or the parties) down strictly party political lines, would have been to set up a supra-governmental cross-party commission to implement the result and take it out of the hands of just one party, and then just one faction within that party - who have since gone on to seek to implement their view of what brexit means. But that's all spilt milk now, and is turning increasingly sour.

I have always thought that the Article 50 process favoured the EU and that walking away and waiting 2 years would have levelled the playing field (to use current parlance), but at the outset I could have gone along with that and in a round about fashion that's where Theresa May ended up. However, the behaviours displayed by a number of the actors indicates that would also have become a shambles. When it came down to trying to get a deal to implement Brexit, too many wanted to overturn the referendum result completely and went to great lengths to achieve that aim. Ultimately it blew up in their faces along with any chance of a softer Brexit that may have left the door open to a return. Given what has transpired in the negotiations to date, I think UK/EU relationships will be poisoned for years to come and it may be a generation before we can even contemplate a return.

Whether there would ever be a return - assuming the worst and that Brexit is complete disaster (which I don't think it will be) - the EU is likely to adopt such a penal attitude towards negotiations that it would prevent us returning. Despite current polls saying that people are more in favour of the EU than they were, winning a referendum would be a different proposition. The EU will also move on with closer integration and fiscal union, which goes way beyond where even most Remainers would want to be. Therefore, I think the circumstances would have to be quite extraordinary to position the UK back within the EU
 
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Ben

Too much time on my hands
Jul 28, 2013
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On another note, Corbyn has been reinstated to the Labour Party...
 

Knutsfordian

Too much time on my hands
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Inevitable really, but just reopens the debate and the accusation that Labour are refusing to deal with the problem

The bigger issue , from a Labour perspective, is that it allows him to lead the crusade for the left against Keir Starmer from within the party.
Labour not re-uniting any time soon. From a Union perspective the SNP are an anti-tory party - we need Labour united to take on the SNP
 
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Ben

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Yes, disappointing that he’s been reinstated. Doesn’t really seem like the zero tolerance that was promised by Starmer and at a time when the Tories have their own problems. A bit of an own goal.

Agree that Labour need to be united to have any chance especially in Scotland, that’s not looking likely at the moment. Folk need to put their differences aside. Not holding my breath.
 

Andy

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Meanwhile, Chief Anti-Semite, Jeremy Corbyn, is back in the Labour Party.

Reinstating a racist in the Labour Party makes the squabbling between egos in No. 10 seem like child’s play
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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Inevitable really, but just reopens the debate and the accusation that Labour are refusing to deal with the problem

The bigger issue , from a Labour perspective, is that it allows him to lead the crusade for the left against Keir Starmer from within the party.
Labour not re-uniting any time soon. From a Union perspective the SNP are an anti-tory party - we need Labour united to take on the SNP
Boris hasn’t done himself any favours north of the border with his recent comments re devolution has he? Another gaffe from a gaffe-prone PM
 

James Wood

Legend
Jun 1, 2017
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Meanwhile, Chief Anti-Semite, Jeremy Corbyn, is back in the Labour Party.

Reinstating a racist in the Labour Party makes the squabbling between egos in No. 10 seem like child’s play
I am disappointed at this decision. It seems a rushed and far from transparent decision.
But you are deluded if you think that the Tory party is squeaky clean on the issue of racism and discrimination.
 
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