JRFC Potential Ground Share rumour, speculation, hearsay
- Thread starter Tony1874
- Start date
- May 21, 2014
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Thanks Edge. I completely agree that if this is the case its a bonkers move by the club. Until the rumours are confirmed however, and the facts/terms of any deal are known, I can't see the point of people falling out/getting wound up as its purely speculation at this point. I should add that I don't think Witton should be criticised at this point either for exploring and considering any desperately needed income streams be it with vics or anyone else to prolong the life of our club. Yes I know you will say its dirty money etc etc but again until the full details and facts are known its purely speculation. Perhaps others know more than I do....
"Further, we should not forget the comments once made by JR that his intention is to drive 1874 out of business!!"
Frank - if someone threatens you then you watch your back! Watching does not mean interference or concern or even interest beyond ensuring that Vics do not in some way damage or hinder '74's' progress.
They are of interest if, for no other reason, that when 74 need a higher graded ground if we haven't got our own sorted by then (and that it quite likely) then talks with Witton will be a certainty - assuming they don't already have a tenant!
If they have are we then looking out of the Northwich area for a 'temporary' ground? Flixton!!!!!!!!!!
Paul, money is money - take it! So long as it's all above board at your end you would be daft not to. We know better than many what surviving entails.
Frank - if someone threatens you then you watch your back! Watching does not mean interference or concern or even interest beyond ensuring that Vics do not in some way damage or hinder '74's' progress.
They are of interest if, for no other reason, that when 74 need a higher graded ground if we haven't got our own sorted by then (and that it quite likely) then talks with Witton will be a certainty - assuming they don't already have a tenant!
If they have are we then looking out of the Northwich area for a 'temporary' ground? Flixton!!!!!!!!!!
Paul, money is money - take it! So long as it's all above board at your end you would be daft not to. We know better than many what surviving entails.
C
C.J
Guest
I'm not sure 1874 fans know of the discussion the ground share or that it made an offer albeit too low, I would have thought as a fan owned club it would have discussed more broadly. As above Witton have to make a business decision based on all the relevant facts as of today so they are obliged to take the best offer all things being equal.
That was before we kicked off in our first season when it was all guesswork as to how many would watch us, how we would do on the pitch and what other income we could hope to raise. If we'd started with gates of under 100 and no success it would probably have finished us? Now we can better judge what lies ahead but we still don't know what to expect when the success dries up - and it has to come to an end at some point. I like the idea of financial caution - it's a hell of a lot less stressful for a fan!
Just widening the discussion a little I am surprised Witton haven't seen a rise in interest since Vics left town. Perhaps we are finally moving into a more grown up climate where the rivalry doesn't have to be so unpleasant and juvenile. If the rivalry can be rekindled and at the same time both clubs work together off the field then it's a win/win situation. Vics are still dying - just doing it more slowly than we expected. It will be interesting to see if gates go up for them at Witton but I suspect that the people now at 74 won't, by and large, go back. With that in mind I would advise you not to order too many pies for the tea hut when they are at home!
Just widening the discussion a little I am surprised Witton haven't seen a rise in interest since Vics left town. Perhaps we are finally moving into a more grown up climate where the rivalry doesn't have to be so unpleasant and juvenile. If the rivalry can be rekindled and at the same time both clubs work together off the field then it's a win/win situation. Vics are still dying - just doing it more slowly than we expected. It will be interesting to see if gates go up for them at Witton but I suspect that the people now at 74 won't, by and large, go back. With that in mind I would advise you not to order too many pies for the tea hut when they are at home!
C
C.J
Guest
That was before we kicked off in our first season when it was all guesswork as to how many would watch us, how we would do on the pitch and what other income we could hope to raise. If we'd started with gates of under 100 and no success it would probably have finished us? Now we can better judge what lies ahead but we still don't know what to expect when the success dries up - and it has to come to an end at some point. I like the idea of financial caution - it's a hell of a lot less stressful for a fan!
Just widening the discussion a little I am surprised Witton haven't seen a rise in interest since Vics left town. Perhaps we are finally moving into a more grown up climate where the rivalry doesn't have to be so unpleasant and juvenile. If the rivalry can be rekindled and at the same time both clubs work together off the field then it's a win/win situation. Vics are still dying - just doing it more slowly than we expected. It will be interesting to see if gates go up for them at Witton but I suspect that the people now at 74 won't, by and large, go back. With that in mind I would advise you not to order too many pies for the tea hut when they are at home!
I understood it was a recent discussion for next season and your bid was very low !
If it was then it still comes back to what I said about being cautious. We've done well so far but there is still a lot of uncertainty - I don't think we could claim to be properly established until we've found our natural level. Could also mean you were asking too much!?
- Jun 24, 2013
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I think there are commercial imperatives in play here, as in all walks of business. There comes a point where you have to accept that as a fan-run club, particularly with the past history from which we have emerged, we are going to have different standards than even the most "community-minded" company which is operated as a pure business. The balance of morals, ethics, and reputation weighs more heavily in decisions made in a club like ours than in one run by a different model driven ultimately by the bottom line - which is what most football clubs are, whether we like it or not.
Similarly, while we may constantly be scrutinising every penny coming in before letting it out of our sight again, there are plenty of businesses out there with a much more maverick approach to questions of when and how to pay the bills. We can but float valid questions, whether they are about shadowy non-owners, mysterious income streams or business viability, and must then trust that those elsewhere with the decision-making powers make appropriate choices - appropriate to their best interests.
What we do not have in the business world is any special claim to special treatment because of what we are or where we come from.
I would be disappointed, even saddened, if Witton entered into a tenancy arrangement with DNFC, because of all the past history which would then be swept under the carpet, but I would not be shocked. Nor would I be worried about anyone starting a tidal wave through the turnstiles at WP. The vast majority who make the regular journey to the BS and the away games have got the bug and bought into the concept. They are not going to suddenly walk away and climb into the latest leaking lifeboat rowed down from Greater Manchester.
Similarly, while we may constantly be scrutinising every penny coming in before letting it out of our sight again, there are plenty of businesses out there with a much more maverick approach to questions of when and how to pay the bills. We can but float valid questions, whether they are about shadowy non-owners, mysterious income streams or business viability, and must then trust that those elsewhere with the decision-making powers make appropriate choices - appropriate to their best interests.
What we do not have in the business world is any special claim to special treatment because of what we are or where we come from.
I would be disappointed, even saddened, if Witton entered into a tenancy arrangement with DNFC, because of all the past history which would then be swept under the carpet, but I would not be shocked. Nor would I be worried about anyone starting a tidal wave through the turnstiles at WP. The vast majority who make the regular journey to the BS and the away games have got the bug and bought into the concept. They are not going to suddenly walk away and climb into the latest leaking lifeboat rowed down from Greater Manchester.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Offering is one thing; you haven't seen the money yet.
Really? Well perhaps the bid was as much as we felt we could budget for at the present time? Not to worry, you've Nuttall, Rushe et al to fall back on, with all their guaranteed riches.
Good luck with your new partnership. Fingers crossed local businesses embrace the new relationship
- Oct 27, 2013
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The Bug!!!!....Yes we've got the bug..... big style !!!!!
In all the years we've been married (43) my wife Pam & I did some volentary work down at the drill field... but in all that time Pam has only watched bout.... a dozen vics games...but with 1874 she has watched.... all leauge and cup games home & away....and all friendlies home & away...and realy enjoys going to watch our great team & being with such happy & friendly people at each & every game.....couln't care less what vics do !!!!!! (WE'VE GOT THE BUG)
- Aug 4, 2013
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I do not care who WA share their ground with, JR?DNFC or what they pay the fee with,is of no concern as it will not affect our own following in any way.
One thing is certain that the "alleged" offer by WA to share with us and our offer should have been increased as a "third party" would account for the rest of the fee is not fact, in particular when that fee was high to the extreme and was merely to take what WA could and when the fundijng ran out to know that 1874 would also.
Incidently the claim that WA play in Northwich is not fact as they play in "Witton cum Twambrook" .
One thing is certain that the "alleged" offer by WA to share with us and our offer should have been increased as a "third party" would account for the rest of the fee is not fact, in particular when that fee was high to the extreme and was merely to take what WA could and when the fundijng ran out to know that 1874 would also.
Incidently the claim that WA play in Northwich is not fact as they play in "Witton cum Twambrook" .
C
C.J
Guest
Toddy, not stirring was told ( by a good source ) that both you and Vics were approached both made indicative offers Vics was much higher, if Rushe is involved with them I would much prefer a ground share with you. It may all come to nothing I guess but we need to maximise our income.
At the end of the day it has to be down to sound business sense. If the board of 1874 feel the time is not right financially to move then I'm happy with that. Of course I would like a better ground to play in and a decent playing surface to play on - be daft if our manager didn't want that as well. But only when we can afford it. We haven't been around long enough to know our limits yet and I don't want another scenario where we are hard up and as desperate for money as some clubs are - been there done that! We need to grow steadily and we're on a long learning curve.
As for what the board tell the fans well, once again, common sense is needed. No matter how open a club is some things have to be confidential - sometimes permanently sometimes temporarily - and dealt with professionally. It's interesting to note the 'facts' you quote given a confidentiality agreement was signed between the two clubs. How and why is this information leaking out now from your end? Or is Rushe's influence and way of keeping to agreements already pervading your board room with the dubious money following on behind?
If Rushe is offering the money now then you need to take it if your situation is that desperate. You'd be daft not to. We are in a lower league, on a different ground, in Winsford and still establishing ourselves. IF we climb up the pyramid then I assume we would approach your club again on a business footing at which point you say 'yes please' or 'no thank you'.
I'm more than happy with what our club's board has achieved so far and and have no qualms about trusting them to do what is right for us.
Looking back over this topic there seems a strong theme of indifference from '74' fans - the emotion and concern seems to be coming from Witton fans. Incidentally, it's more than obvious looking at the Witton forum that we are not wanted up there anyway so perhaps we should all be happy with the current status quo?
As for what the board tell the fans well, once again, common sense is needed. No matter how open a club is some things have to be confidential - sometimes permanently sometimes temporarily - and dealt with professionally. It's interesting to note the 'facts' you quote given a confidentiality agreement was signed between the two clubs. How and why is this information leaking out now from your end? Or is Rushe's influence and way of keeping to agreements already pervading your board room with the dubious money following on behind?
If Rushe is offering the money now then you need to take it if your situation is that desperate. You'd be daft not to. We are in a lower league, on a different ground, in Winsford and still establishing ourselves. IF we climb up the pyramid then I assume we would approach your club again on a business footing at which point you say 'yes please' or 'no thank you'.
I'm more than happy with what our club's board has achieved so far and and have no qualms about trusting them to do what is right for us.
Looking back over this topic there seems a strong theme of indifference from '74' fans - the emotion and concern seems to be coming from Witton fans. Incidentally, it's more than obvious looking at the Witton forum that we are not wanted up there anyway so perhaps we should all be happy with the current status quo?
- Jun 24, 2013
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Thorn hill exactly what are your motives in posting here? Clearly you know a lot about the goings on at your club, so why come here to discuss it? I personally find that a tad odd.
I couldnt give a flying rats where vids play, let the, go about whatever buisness they are into. In my honest opinion a deal between 1874 and Witton would be more beneficial to both clubs and to the community but If Witton are in that dire straits that they don't care where the money comes from or what impact that has on their club then so be it.
I couldnt give a flying rats where vids play, let the, go about whatever buisness they are into. In my honest opinion a deal between 1874 and Witton would be more beneficial to both clubs and to the community but If Witton are in that dire straits that they don't care where the money comes from or what impact that has on their club then so be it.
I will repeat my Question to Witton fans,do you not care where the money is coming from?.Would it not be pertinent to find out before you accept it.To bury your head in the sand and say (it's none of your concern) might come back and bite you in the end.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Excellent question toddy, mainly because I feel that's exactly the mistake we made!! I don't have a problem if we play at Witton or not, but I don't want to see Witton brought to its knees!!
- Jul 30, 2013
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I don't think I've ever read such a pile of tosh. Do your board not care where the money comes from or is that OK just as long as you survive? If so that echoes what Vics fans who stayed have been saying since we were founded.
Business is business indeed! It is not moral BS as you so eloquently put it, it is sound business PRACTICE. Ask yourself how they have survived on attendances of little more than 60 with a team doing as well as they have - the figures do not add up. You allow them back and you will see a drop in your attendances by Wittoners who have more morals than you it seems. How can you hope to attract sponsors with them as tenants?
Everything being right on the pitch is NOT the be all and end all of a football club - if it was we would not be having this discussion.