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Attendances

stebiggy

Legend
5
Nov 2, 2014
215
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I've been reading the threads about attendance on here over the last week with real interest.

Most of you know that I am a Linnets fan and come in peace (apart from when you guys bleat on about not beating us and it being everyone fault but your own ;). Only kidding. ) I have a lot of respect for your club with your foundations and beliefs being very similar to ours and I'm always interested to read about how your getting on with the operation of running and growing the club, just like we had to.

Ok so here's the worrying part, and I have said this on here in the past. I'm not surprised that your attendances have fallen, because exactly the same thing happened to us. We started at Witton with a regular base of around 220, which dropped to around 120-150 in our last year of playing there. People just found the journey too much after a while and also the sense of paying into someone else's pot.

When we came home after 4 years at Witton our attendances skyrocketed initially, but it did'nt last and with us only being a decent side at the time but not title challengers they dropped right down to around the 200 mark again. We have learned now over the years that the pattern is 200 hardy souls who will watch the club if it played on the moon, another 70 odd that are semi-regulars around other commitments and then another 100 on top for big games and when we are playing really well. Beyond that is special event days (family fun days etc ) or our games against Town and yourselves.

Attracting new people is so difficult. One area where we were lucky was moving to the New Town end of Runcorn, as those guys would never watch us at Canal St but many have really taken the club to heart. You then pick up the odd straggler who comes along out of curiosity and stays for the long run (we have an Aldershot fan who comes our games since moving up here).

In my opinion, you guys have two problems.

Firstly, you wont grow your fanbase playing in Winsford no matter what you do. You have seen that now in the slow decline of your attendances even despite being top of the league, something that goes against what we have found. Winsford FC have been around for over a hundred years, why would anyone in Winsford who has an interest in non-league footy suddenly decide to watch a Northwich team who's intention it is to leave the Town asap?

Secondly, your club doesnt seem to know fully what it is or what its about. I struggle understanding it myself and its people like me with a passing interest that you need to paint a clear picture to. By that I mean, parts of the club seem like they want to acknowledge and latch on to Vics, then other parts completely dismiss a link to Vics and say that your an entirely new club with none of Vics history. You cant have it both ways. Your probably putting off people who don't like Vics by half pretending to be them, and also putting off people who did love Vics and would enjoy watching Vics phoenix club, but wont watch a new club.

I was involved from the very beginning of Linnets and the 30 or so of us that had the initial discussions were all Runcorn FC fans and did so to continue that club. None of us were interested in it being a new club with no history. People who have come along since might have their own interpretation but from the outset we were 100% a continuation/phoenix/whatever you call it of Runcorn AFC. There was no alternative slant.

You will only get a true feeling for your core fanbase when you move to Northwich and I genuinely hope you can do that sooner rather than later, because I can see us having a great rivalry for many years to come!
 
Some good points there Ste.
 
You will only get a true feeling for your core fanbase when you move to Northwich and I genuinely hope you can do that sooner rather than later, because I can see us having a great rivalry for many years to come!
Quite right Steve.

Nice post. There are many fans who want to see Vics go under and celebrate when they do. I'm afraid there is a lot of bad stuff gone on over a number of years that has upset these people and it's hard to forget that. I've only been here 28 years and serious supporter for 10 or so but it does hurt what has happened.

Moving to Northwich is the key for me, but that's easier said than done. We'll see what progress has been made at our AGM next month.

I see we will have to wait for our return game!! Shame really but I so wish it is not a murky Tuesday night in January/February.
 
Excellent post Steve. I think you summarise the dilemma very well and personally I think there is a big opportunity to appeal to the green half (three quarters) of Northwich to see 1874 as the phoenix from Vics ashes. We all have friends and family who watched Vics (but not 1874) and this has to be the primary source of attracting more support to 1874. And that is also the reason the playing colours are so fundamental.
 
Although our situations are similar in a number of respects, they are also vastly different in other respects.

You are correct that your average attendance fell from 200 to 136 over the 4 years at Witton. But I suspect that had quite a bit to do with the fact that in the year you averaged 200 was because you finished 2nd and were promoted, and the following seasons where the attendances were lower the team finished 11th and 12th. Thats the first difference between ourselves and yours, The drop in attendances at Linnets coincided with relatively poor seasons on the pitch. Whereas, we've spent most of this season top of the pile and have seen the greatest drop. (I personally argue that this season entertainment wise, has been our poorest yet, thats my personal view as to why there has been such a massive drop this year)

Linnets were in the great position where you only spent 4 years out of time, again thats a massive difference to ourselves. We're now in our 4th season, and for me as someone not in the know, we're no closer to playing in Northwich than we were on day 1. Linnets were in a position where you could cope with losing a few fans a year whilst you were away from the town, because you were in the good position of not being out of town long. The issue we have, is we are still (as it looks like to me, someone not in the know) many years from 'going home'. We cant afford this continued decline and to brush it off as 'what do you expect when we're playing out of town?'.

So, I agree entirely that there are people who will lose interest, but the rate at which people are losing interest is the worry. But you could also argue, if you give them a reason, they will come - thats true. If you offer them an experience that makes that little spark that makes us on this forum come week in and week out regardless, you've got them for life.

A few reasons that I feel why they're in decline:

1. Obviously, people will lose the interest as the 'new club' novelty wears off. But that's really only in the first season/ season and a half. This problem is ultimately over now.

2. The ground. When we want to attract new fans that have never been before, it's hard when cant even tell them that a grounds being built, it's hard when in 4 years, we've heard very little about it. I'm not saying nothing is going on behind the scenes, because I'm sure it is. But to an outsider from that, it's hard to get excited, it's hard get people interested about something that at times I personally question whether it will ever happen.

3. A big reason, and its the one people really dont like reading. On the pitch. I've stated on this forum and gotten a lot of stick for it that I feel that the style of play and tactics. It's much easier to attract new fans and fans that have drifted off back, when you can offer them an edge of the seat game. Glossop style attacking football. It's much harder the way we are playing this season - even though were at the top end of the trophy. And yes, people will dismiss this as they have already, but the fact is I know a few people now, who used to come quite regularly, and over the back end of last season and this season, they've lost all interest. Why? Because in there words "It's boring".

At the end of the day, If you can sell someone a product that they can get excited about, they will come, and keep coming.
 
Excellent post Steve. I think you summarise the dilemma very well and personally I think there is a big opportunity to appeal to the green half (three quarters) of Northwich to see 1874 as the phoenix from Vics ashes. We all have friends and family who watched Vics (but not 1874) and this has to be the primary source of attracting more support to 1874. And that is also the reason the playing colours are so fundamental.
Sorry disagree, and here's the problem we have attracting new fans.
I don't see us as a Phoenix club as vics are still going so technically we are a new club.
We keep telling people we are not vics and different and don't want to be associated yet we have so many similarities!
I'm on the side that thinks we should adopt the new badge completely, keep the green but add a new colour than white to make us unique and recognizable as 74 and stop people confusing us with vics.
I don't want old vics fans watching us because they think we are a spin off of vics, I'd like see us promoted as a fresh new club doing things right and better, and if that means completely new fans, so be it!
 
Sorry Blackie but I disagree which is the point Steve was making. All the other born again clubs hung on to their name, history and in most cases their grounds. We didn't but only because Vics was suffering a lingering death.
 
The drop in attendances is certainly a worry. In our first season, we were getting crowds of 300-350 in most games, whereas now we're struggling to get 200-250. The biggest reason for me is the fact we're based in Winsford, as a lot of people get fed up of travelling so far out of town week in week out, especially when the standard of football on offer isn't the best. I have a number of friends who say this and they would rather watch football on TV or go to a higher level game. They are probably a snapshot of a considerable number of people when they say this. Again, as others have said, until we have our own ground back in Northwich, I can't see us growing as a club.

I also think it's wrong for some to call ourselves a "phoenix club". We're a new club and our effectively a "breakaway club" like FC United. I feel that this is in itself makes it harder for us to attract new fans, as many people who I know who used to watch Vics say they find it hard to support our club due to the circumstances in which it was formed, and would have found it a lot easier to support a true phoenix club. How many in the town think the same as this? Like it or not, Vics still exist and in my opinion we shouldn't try to claim history that's not ours, as we're a) supposed to have washed our hands with Vics as a club when we made the decision to form 1874 and b) don't want to confuse people as to what the difference is between the two clubs. This is why, I, like Blackie, would like to see us do away with so many of the things which connect us to Vics and concentrate on being a successful new club distinguishable from Vics in everything from our shirt to our badge and some may say even our name.
 
Sorry Blackie but I disagree which is the point Steve was making. All the other born again clubs hung on to their name, history and in most cases their grounds. We didn't but only because Vics was suffering a lingering death.
Ste also made the point that we need to choose one way or the other....we can't be both.
I'm not saying either of us are right or wrong, it just the problem we have with our identity that confuses those who don't know what the story is.
Some still think we are, and I'm quoting what others say to me...."the new vics"
 
Sorry disagree, and here's the problem we have attracting new fans.
I don't see us as a Phoenix club as vics are still going so technically we are a new club.
We keep telling people we are not vics and different and don't want to be associated yet we have so many similarities!
I'm on the side that thinks we should adopt the new badge completely, keep the green but add a new colour than white to make us unique and recognizable as 74 and stop people confusing us with vics.
I don't want old vics fans watching us because they think we are a spin off of vics, I'd like see us promoted as a fresh new club doing things right and better, and if that means completely new fans, so be it!

My opinion, others are entitled to their own (as also touched on, part of the problem) of course, but I think you have it spot on Blackie. Given the choice I would have dispensed completely with green as the dominant colour or if I had to compromise, green and black stripes, rather than the players wearing shirts which is, no matter how much others might disagree, far too similar to the Vics kits of old - although I accept I'm never going to win that argument ;):D
 
With what seems a fairly even split between the 2 schools of thought we are probably stuck with the problem - at least until what's left of NVFC breathes its final breath. Maybe then we've got more chance of having something approaching a clean sheet.
But until we return to the town it is still going to be an uphill struggle with attendances
 
I'm really not sure we can use the "out of town" excuse as it's really not that far a drive. With the traffic at times in Northwich it probably wouldn't be much different to playing in town! Yes we will be losing some footfare fans and some who would deem it more as "their" team if we were in Northwich...but not to this degree.
 
For the new / potential / latent / uncommitted / lapsed / occasional fans * I still believe that this is a major factor. I come back to my point (re attracting young fans): Child: "Dad! Dad! Take me to Winsford to watch this football team that I've got a promotional ticket for!" Dad: "#@*/+# !"

* delete as appropriate
 
For the new / potential / latent / uncommitted / lapsed / occasional fans * I still believe that this is a major factor. I come back to my point (re attracting young fans): Child: "Dad! Dad! Take me to Winsford to watch this football team that I've got a promotional ticket for!" Dad: "#@*/+# !"

* delete as appropriate

How to attract kids and new supporters..... Hmmmmm
School visits, incorporated with Alan's suggestiion with a free 1874 badge on entry.
Junior FC
 
Wincham isn't all that much closer than Winsford (dependent on where you live within Northwich of course) and Witton Albion and Vics (when playing up there) seem/ed to able to manage to capitalise on local schools etc. I'm not saying that this is an easy task by any stretch, but I feel like "being out of town" is a fallback excuse as far as a club of our size is concerned I'm afraid. I know countless people who live in Winsford and support Witton/Vics as well who the distance doesn't seem to bother.
 
At the NVFC game yesterday there were in attendance a number of NVFC fans who are concerned about the state of their club, but they are also determined to try and resolve and secure the ownership of the club and to keep it afloat for the foreseeable future. As mentioned else where in this thread, this poses a dilemma for many supporters of the old NVFC pre-split with 1874 who are still disaffected by Jim Rushe. If the ownership issue is resolved and the Rushe tenure is consigned to history, then many of the NVFC supporters may return to the team that still holds the original banner and colours of NVFC. The logical conclusion is that 1874 Northwich isn't a phoenix club, but a new club with no association whatever to 1874. Those within 1874 who would claim ownership of the history of NVFC are supporting the wrong team. Might it be time for a grown up conversation about the merits of a single Northwich 1874/Vics team? And just for the record, I am one of those who loves the local rivalries and favours having 2 teams in town (as long as one of them is Albion of course).
 
Free entry for Military Personnel - not only is it nice thing to do, it's also leaves potential for good media attention.

Good media attention at this level priceless.
 
At the NVFC game yesterday there were in attendance a number of NVFC fans who are concerned about the state of their club, but they are also determined to try and resolve and secure the ownership of the club and to keep it afloat for the foreseeable future. As mentioned else where in this thread, this poses a dilemma for many supporters of the old NVFC pre-split with 1874 who are still disaffected by Jim Rushe. If the ownership issue is resolved and the Rushe tenure is consigned to history, then many of the NVFC supporters may return to the team that still holds the original banner and colours of NVFC. The logical conclusion is that 1874 Northwich isn't a phoenix club, but a new club with no association whatever to 1874. Those within 1874 who would claim ownership of the history of NVFC are supporting the wrong team. Might it be time for a grown up conversation about the merits of a single Northwich 1874/Vics team? And just for the record, I am one of those who loves the local rivalries and favours having 2 teams in town (as long as one of them is Albion of course).

While appreciating your comments, I would say
a) the "number in attendance" was minimal, and it has taken them quite a long while to be "concerned about the state of their club"
b) the number involved have no realistic prospect of achieving their aim "to keep it afloat for the foreseeable future", other than that the foreseeable future is very short by definition
c) the Rushe tenure will take a long time to be "consigned to history", having soured too many relationships with the ex-fanbase, let alone with the local community and businesses, and there is no tangible evidence that "many" now lapsed supporters will return to them
d) few would claim 1874 to be a "phoenix club", but similarly few would accept that there is "no association whatever" to the old club (which is presumably what you meant) - the vast majority of the founding members/owners come from the ranks of the disillusioned and disenfranchised NVFC fanbase
e) few "claim ownership of the history of NVFC" - what we do claim is a representation of at least a significant part of the legacy of that club and an embodiment of the fact that any football club resides primarily in its supporters.
f) we foresee a single Northwich team without the need to lower ourselves to an acceptance of the wrongdoings of a club which has been teetering on the brink now for many years. At least in my view, it would be morally and ethically reprehensible to countenance any association with what is left of NVFC. They have burnt those bridges long ago.

The brand NVFC is toxic, and little can be done to change that. Any amalgamation would more likely result in reduced rather than increased attendances, and could do untold damage to our attempts to establish our good name within the local community.
That does not detract from the continued need to search for ways of attracting more support, however.
 
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