General Election 2017
- Thread starter Andy
- Start date
- Jul 28, 2013
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- #604
In 2015 the Country unanimously agreed that Labour could not be trusted. The 2015 manifesto was much more sensible, but even still the public saw that the country is better living within its means, and that manifesto would still result in massive amounts of borrowing.
2 years on, all of the sudden, that seems to be have forgotten. Milliband was rejected because of his economic policies. But, now the Country looks to be backing Corbyn, a politician that will Borrow more money than any Western politician in History. The Institute of Fiscal Studies has already said the costings in Labours manifesto is way out to the tunes of Billions of Pounds.
What has changed? What has changed to go from sensibly rejecting Millibands moderate borrowing, and now going for Labours outlandish borrowing?
To me, that debate was the 5 Left wing parties playing "Straw man politics". They seemed to make up an opinion of the 2 Right wing parties (especially UKIP) then argue against that opinion they have just made up. Very cheap politics, i hope people don't fall for it.
2 years on, all of the sudden, that seems to be have forgotten. Milliband was rejected because of his economic policies. But, now the Country looks to be backing Corbyn, a politician that will Borrow more money than any Western politician in History. The Institute of Fiscal Studies has already said the costings in Labours manifesto is way out to the tunes of Billions of Pounds.
What has changed? What has changed to go from sensibly rejecting Millibands moderate borrowing, and now going for Labours outlandish borrowing?
To me, that debate was the 5 Left wing parties playing "Straw man politics". They seemed to make up an opinion of the 2 Right wing parties (especially UKIP) then argue against that opinion they have just made up. Very cheap politics, i hope people don't fall for it.
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That's not what I've experienced so far and I regularly venture into the town's Wetherspoon for a pint, but then I've only been here for two weeks I guess. I'm expecting Labour to get in around here though, always has been a safe Labour seat.
And, Labour have cut the Tories lead to just THREE points according to YouGov poll. Surely not? Brexit 2016 Trump 2016 Corbyn 2017?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-is-winning-a7766171.html?cmpid=facebook-post
- Jun 24, 2013
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Theresa May - that's one things that's changed. She's let the Tories down badly. A toe-curling, half-arsed Tory manifesto hasn't helped then there's the fact that people are able to see for themselves that Corbyn is not the big bad wolf the media has portrayed him as. Never underestimate the power of strong principles and integrity; qualities that are just not synonymous with Tories.
Regarding the feasibility of what the parties are promising; run those Tory manifesto costings past me again...
Taking of the IFS - they don't think much of Tory plans either.
Regarding the feasibility of what the parties are promising; run those Tory manifesto costings past me again...
Taking of the IFS - they don't think much of Tory plans either.
- Jun 24, 2013
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As for cheap politics - sorry but the Tories have that one mastered. It's been a Corbyn smear campaign from day 1 and it's backfired spectacularly. It's no use looking outside for their failings or looking to accuse others of cheap politics. Even those within the party have been honest enough to accept that. May - and her advisors (if she listens to them) - has to go.
Yep, Cameron was far stronger PM material if you ask me. He at least stood up for our place in Europe, something May will not do despite being a so-called remainer!
- Mar 12, 2014
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Would love to have £10 minimum wage when I was working as chef take you never had a job on minimum wage I had to work 80 hours a week just to break even with rent bills food no money left to do anything With
- Mar 12, 2014
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Brexit Is not eveything to me the cuts the NHS cuts to schools cuts to disabled people bedroom tax over 1M people use food banks massive tax cuts to rich and big Companies Avoiding tax means more to me
- Jun 24, 2013
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Andy, back to my Corp Tax point ...
My point had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit, that was the last thing on my mind, that's yesterday's news.
It had everything to do with getting you to see that while the Conservatives have cut it from 28 to a proposed 18 percent (trickle down economics, so that the people at the bottom benefit, yeah right) there are an awful lot of countries with rates above the 26% proposed by Labour whose economies and business bases have not collapsed as a result. I quoted three at random.
Or are you saying that companies would consider fleeing the country if it went up to 26%? Maybe to Germany, with 29%, or the US, with 35%?
The reason they will flee the country, at least with parts of their business, is to maintain their unfettered access to the EU single market. But that's a separate argument.
And anyway, it's only the big companies who can uproot and flee. I can't see my local plumbing/heating firm moving across the Channel.
And as for a £10 minimum wage, if that is what is regarded as a proper living wage, why should any business owner condemn his/her workers to earning below an acceptable level? Or is it ok to say they can claim Working Tax Credits to make it up? And then people moan about the cost to the taxpayer of benefits. Pay people a decent wage and save the taxpayer subsidising Scrooge businesses. Why should we as taxpayers pay to prop up businesses and their profit margins? If that means higher prices for that business to maintain its profit margin, then customers can choose whether to go elsewhere for their products/services. If it maintains its profit margin, the country gets more tax. If the profit margin is cut, that doesn't automatically mean the company folds. Tough choices maybe, but not quite as tough as for those earning a pittance and then having to decide what food to put on the table. People then earn more, and the use of food banks will decline. Just for example.
And yes, I am someone who will end up paying more, but we are not all on this earth solely for the promotion of self.
My point had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit, that was the last thing on my mind, that's yesterday's news.
It had everything to do with getting you to see that while the Conservatives have cut it from 28 to a proposed 18 percent (trickle down economics, so that the people at the bottom benefit, yeah right) there are an awful lot of countries with rates above the 26% proposed by Labour whose economies and business bases have not collapsed as a result. I quoted three at random.
Or are you saying that companies would consider fleeing the country if it went up to 26%? Maybe to Germany, with 29%, or the US, with 35%?
The reason they will flee the country, at least with parts of their business, is to maintain their unfettered access to the EU single market. But that's a separate argument.
And anyway, it's only the big companies who can uproot and flee. I can't see my local plumbing/heating firm moving across the Channel.
And as for a £10 minimum wage, if that is what is regarded as a proper living wage, why should any business owner condemn his/her workers to earning below an acceptable level? Or is it ok to say they can claim Working Tax Credits to make it up? And then people moan about the cost to the taxpayer of benefits. Pay people a decent wage and save the taxpayer subsidising Scrooge businesses. Why should we as taxpayers pay to prop up businesses and their profit margins? If that means higher prices for that business to maintain its profit margin, then customers can choose whether to go elsewhere for their products/services. If it maintains its profit margin, the country gets more tax. If the profit margin is cut, that doesn't automatically mean the company folds. Tough choices maybe, but not quite as tough as for those earning a pittance and then having to decide what food to put on the table. People then earn more, and the use of food banks will decline. Just for example.
And yes, I am someone who will end up paying more, but we are not all on this earth solely for the promotion of self.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Interesting observation on t'interweb ...
To those with a problem with a "leftie" audience: a natural consequence of leftish views generally being held by people that care and want to change the world and society for the better. Maybe those on the "right" could not be bothered to show as they were too busy with something selfish? Those that think that left=jealous and right=hardworking only prove their sad cynical nature and ethical void
To those with a problem with a "leftie" audience: a natural consequence of leftish views generally being held by people that care and want to change the world and society for the better. Maybe those on the "right" could not be bothered to show as they were too busy with something selfish? Those that think that left=jealous and right=hardworking only prove their sad cynical nature and ethical void
May should be standing up for our place in Europe? We voted out - she should be following through the wishes of a majority.
Food banks - created by the left and a ridiculous welfare state that meant millions became career claimants.
NHS - pressures created by Blair's open door immigrstion problem.
Education - standards so much higher now than when Labour were chucking billions at it. Children are actually learning something.
Corbyn smears? He has a strongly socialist ideology. He entertains IRA members and three-quarters of his own MPs can't stomach him. He's played a blinder as everyone's favourite uncle. The reality would be terrifying.
The smears go both ways, May's manifesto was shocking, but so many lies about it being peddled.
Should she have turned up last night - probably - but then the BBC does have form in picking biased left wing audiences who heckle anything a Tory says.
Food banks - created by the left and a ridiculous welfare state that meant millions became career claimants.
NHS - pressures created by Blair's open door immigrstion problem.
Education - standards so much higher now than when Labour were chucking billions at it. Children are actually learning something.
Corbyn smears? He has a strongly socialist ideology. He entertains IRA members and three-quarters of his own MPs can't stomach him. He's played a blinder as everyone's favourite uncle. The reality would be terrifying.
The smears go both ways, May's manifesto was shocking, but so many lies about it being peddled.
Should she have turned up last night - probably - but then the BBC does have form in picking biased left wing audiences who heckle anything a Tory says.
- Jun 24, 2013
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Kit - you're under the impression (because you've been told it by the Tory press) that you'll be paying £4K in 'garden tax'!!! I think I know where the biggest porkies are coming from!
The ***personal*** smears are overwhelmingly against Corbyn. Surely you can see that? It has been a fundamental tactic of the Tory campaign. The IRA thing has been done to death and it's quite obvious that not many people apply much significance to it. There is good reason for that. As for being a socialist... Corbyn is very clear about who he is and what he stands for. If people don't like that then they have the choice to not vote Labour. Again, the manner in which his personal and party support has grown would suggest rather clearly that there are more who are not so against his principles (however you want to classify them) than you would want to believe. That's democracy right?
May should not be standing up for us in Europe, she should be standing down to let someone more competent take over. I'm not exactly sure who that is but surely the Tories have someone who's a little more convincing?!? Are we really expecting a woman who can't deal with some hecklers to negotiate and get the best deal for us?
The NHS would collapse without immigrants.
Education standards improving? I don't know about that one. How are we measuring it?
I think you'll cope if Corbyn was to become PM and find that it wasn't quite as terrifying as you thought. Certainly not as terrifying as living in poverty as Tort governments have inflicted on so many. You'll pull through.
Anyway, I'd just chill, not even the useful bunch of pillocks that make up the Tory party can mess this one up.
Thankfully I'm going to be working in the US next week so can face the realisation of another 5 years of their 'rule' over a beer and not have to wake up to the news. There's nothing quite like that to put a real downer on a day.
The ***personal*** smears are overwhelmingly against Corbyn. Surely you can see that? It has been a fundamental tactic of the Tory campaign. The IRA thing has been done to death and it's quite obvious that not many people apply much significance to it. There is good reason for that. As for being a socialist... Corbyn is very clear about who he is and what he stands for. If people don't like that then they have the choice to not vote Labour. Again, the manner in which his personal and party support has grown would suggest rather clearly that there are more who are not so against his principles (however you want to classify them) than you would want to believe. That's democracy right?
May should not be standing up for us in Europe, she should be standing down to let someone more competent take over. I'm not exactly sure who that is but surely the Tories have someone who's a little more convincing?!? Are we really expecting a woman who can't deal with some hecklers to negotiate and get the best deal for us?
The NHS would collapse without immigrants.
Education standards improving? I don't know about that one. How are we measuring it?
I think you'll cope if Corbyn was to become PM and find that it wasn't quite as terrifying as you thought. Certainly not as terrifying as living in poverty as Tort governments have inflicted on so many. You'll pull through.
Anyway, I'd just chill, not even the useful bunch of pillocks that make up the Tory party can mess this one up.
Thankfully I'm going to be working in the US next week so can face the realisation of another 5 years of their 'rule' over a beer and not have to wake up to the news. There's nothing quite like that to put a real downer on a day.
- Jul 28, 2013
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- Thread starter
- #615
You're better than this.
Don't be the typical lefty that tells people that disagree with them "you don't actually think that, the new paper told you that"
- Jul 28, 2013
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- Thread starter
- #617
These are the topics people care about. These are the topics the Conservatives are much stronger than Labour on. But conveniently, these are the Topics the BBC largely chose to ignore last night.
But that's not bias, is it?
But that's not bias, is it?
- Jun 24, 2013
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Every so often it happens to be true Andy. The Telegraph and the Daily Mail both reported complete fabrications on what the Land Value Tax is and how it would be implemented. They lied. I apologise to Kit if it wasn't the case but I believe he has drawn his conclusions either directly from them or another source that piggy-backed off them. I can honestly say I'd be very pleased if he proved me wrong - for two reasons: firstly I despise the idea of the media manipulating people purely for their own gain and, secondly, if he got the figures to work out his LVT from elsewhere, I'll go and calculate mine. Postal vote going off today but I haven't filled it in yet! There's still time for me to change my mind!
Whether or not I agree or disagree with what was said is completely immaterial.
'Typical lefty'. Sounds to me like you're stigmatising being a Labour supporter!
If believing that the media does what it can - including lying - to try and influence the way people vote somehow makes me a bad person then I can live with that. Which is worse Andy - media manipulation through lies or pointing out that it happens?
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- Jun 24, 2013
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I think it's number 1 now.
The point is, that song has not come direct from the Labour Party. Members of the front bench are personally smearing Corbyn.